Should there be a new "Python Scripting" forum?

[ChrisSnyder]

Should there be a new "Python Scripting" forum that is seperate from the existing "Geoprocessing" and "ArcGIS Desktop - General" forum topics?

For the "long story" background on the issue: http://forums.arcgis.com/threads/10092-Should-this-forum-be-SPLIT

The basic arguments are (and I am trying to be very 'fair and balanced' here, although maybe I shouldn't 😞

Yes: Python scripting continues to become an increasingly popular and important method to automate GIS workflows and with advances in v10, no longer applies to only geoprocessing tasks. Providing a separate "Python Scripting" forum will make it easier for knowledgeable contributors to reply to Python-related questions and provide a more focused and easy to browse knowledge base resource for all users interested in Python scripting.  

No: Fewer forum topics is better, as many new ESRI users do not know what forum to post their questions under. Having fewer forum topics concentrates traffic and maximizes posts. The more threads in a forum, the better chance the thread will be responded to. Python-related questions are best left in the existing "Geoprocessing" and/or "ArcGIS Desktop - General" forums.

Python users (or would-be users) unite! Help shape the new ESRI forum... Vote!

[TedCronin]

Hope the beta testers do a better job this time.

Perhaps next time, you will beta test, so that it is better.

[ThomasGowen]

I think a forum for python scripting would be good for new companies that work with python!

[JimBarry]

I think a forum for python scripting would be good for new companies that work with python!

Well in a way sure.  Folks clearly want to ask, answer, learn, and help others with using Python.  But that doesn't seem to be the heart of the issue of how to organize the forums.

Really what the issue seems to be is this.  Should there be one Python forum for everything you can do with Python, or should the forums continue moving toward being functionally-based?    Meaning, if you're doing Map Automation with Python, use the Map Automation forum.  If you're doing other geoprocessing related tasks with Python, use the Geoprocessing forum, etc.  In the end, Python is just a scripting language.  

Bottom line:
a.  Is there demand for a Python forum where the techniques of coding in the language are discussed in the abstract?  
b.  Or is it more important for discussions to include Python in the context of what you're actually trying to accomplish with the scripting?

I'm concerned that those who are just quickly jumping to "I'm using Python, there should be a Python forum" might not be thinking it all the way through.    Again, I'm trying to stay out of the fray and keep my opinion out of this.  But I don't want us to live with a decision that hasn't been fully thought through.

[JimBarry]

@Jim: Didn't mean to razz you too bad about "GIS in General". A little bummed that some get their suggestions acted upon right away, while others have to work a little harder and wait a bit longer.

Gotcha.  You're right.   But...  Some ideas are easy to do, are unanimous or lowly-contested, and are low-no-impact on any other part of the system.   I don't mind doing those right away.   But, hehehh, some ideas and issues are none of those things.  To deal with them fairly, we really need to sort them out well.

...even with the proposed Editing forum vote. Have you voted? There aren't any 'No' votes yet ;).

Looks like a no-brainer.   I'll give that one another week.  If isn't a wave in the other direction nor any deal-breaker argument the other way, we'll make an Editing forum.   Hey, if we stay on this track, we'll find all of the major "functional" categories that GIS pros really use and the General forum will waste away.  We can hope.

[ChrisSnyder]

Nice quote Ryan!

Python = The heart and soul of GIS

Not so sure, about the "heart and soul", but maybe if it makes it so ESRI can say "yes" they've embraced open source (well sort of) and at the same time still make $$$ hand over fist - Well I guess that's good enough for a clear conscience.

Heart and soul!

Go Python!

[LoganPugh]

I would say that ArcObjects is closer to the heart and soul than Python. Python is like the eyes, ears and hands of ArcGIS. You can tell it what to do, it can see the data, and it can work with the data, but it doesn't necessarily have to listen to you 🙂

[JimBarry]

I am getting conflicting reports, you jb, says the above. This is what I got from Jack Dangermond at the user conference.

"at the heart and soul and center of ArcGIS is Python, a scientific programming language. Python, which not only gives a nice scripting and programming language but also connects to the open source world where there's interesting statistical tools and mathematical tools and modeling tools and it also opens up ArcGIS tools to that world, as well." nuff said.

Sigh, come on Ryan.   My "just a scripting language" was in the larger context of the paragraph, comparing a scripting technology with the functional capabilities you can drive with it.  It's not the same meaning as a standalone statement as you pulled it out to be.

Let's go folks.  I'm trying to serve your needs and do what needs to be done to make the forums better and more useful.   Dissecting my statements to imply a different meaning isn't helping solve the problem.

We all know what Python is.

[BartHound]

Way to go, Mr Jim Barry, seems a bit crazy that this hasn't been finalized yet, but then out of 31,744 members on these forums there are only 79 replies, seems like a no brainer on NOT implementing a new forum.  Seems like the new forums were a replacement for the old forums, but if we keep adding new forum threads, aren't we going to end up with the old broken forums, I don't know, perhaps we should just have a good tagging system, and quality search, with a few generalized categories, however, I do see the ability to search by a specific category as useful, but if tagging is done successfully, this would be a bit redundant.

[JimBarry]

Way to go, Mr Jim Barry, seems a bit crazy that this hasn't been finalized yet, but then out of 31,744 members on these forums there are only 79 replies, seems like a no brainer on NOT implementing a new forum.  Seems like the new forums were a replacement for the old forums, but if we keep adding new forum threads, aren't we going to end up with the old broken forums, I don't know, perhaps we should just have a good tagging system, and quality search, with a few generalized categories, however, I do see the ability to search by a specific category as useful, but if tagging is done successfully, this would be a bit redundant.

Close, but not exactly the same thing.

With the old forums, if someone wanted a new forum they just got it.  No one was there to look at the big picture, nor ask those who use and rely on the forums.   Untended gardens get overgrown with weeds.

That isn't the same thing as saying that if adding or splitting a forum has a strong justification we shouldn't do it.  Extensions are the example I keep going back to as one forum splitting into 12 with the strongest justification there could be.   And it's working.

But your point is clearly taken about slippery slopes.  I agree with you there.  We just need to be smart, know they're out there, and avoid those where possible.

[ChrisSnyder]

Why do you guys keep referring to the old forums as "broken" (besides the fact that it really is broken now that you can't post to it)? I thought that it was awesome! Ok, maybe a bit 1990's, and I do admit that it did lack the all-important emoticon functionality, which I have found to be quite critical. Never even crossed my mind that they were "broken" in any sort of way.  :confused:

I am glad Jim (being a dictator of benevolent nature) has taken the "adaptive management" approach to solicit/implement ideas on how to make things better. It ain't my fault that most people are apathetic. In my book, apathy means your opinion doesn't count - sorry.

Election day is over, and the votes are tallied.

Time to act (or not).

P.S. In Jim's own words: "I.... love Python... and think it... should have it's own forum on... the 19th".