Latest Contributions by MathieuBoonen

‎07-20-2015

This is an excerpt from earlier discussions relating to forestry roads, The modelling has matured a little to the point the user wants to add new flat features along the road at user defined elevations and force the calculation of gradient to be set by the heights of these features. These features for the initial stage do not have elevation but need to be assigned this value somewhere through this process (either before or during the calculation of Gradient of the roads that join these flat areas. Editing 3D polyline values now becomes more complex in Hikurangi Forest Farms Ltd's blog posts Hikurangi Forest Farms Ltd wrote3 weeks ago Earlier leading Discussion I have a Polyline Feature class that I wish to maintain in 3D Editing Xander Bakker Suggested I Branch this off the original discussion Basically what I am doing is I have a polyline that I apply a Start and Finish Z Value to an attribute via Xanders Python script he had written in my earlier topic. But now I wish to introduce another feature class Polygon that intersects these Polylines at a static height part way through this PolyLine, and it derives it's own height from a user defined range similar to but not exactly at the same altitude as the underlying surface, this in fact makes a section of the poly line the same height as that polygon over the area of that polygon I will add some demo data to explain in Hikurangi Forest Farms Ltd's blog postsLike Show 0 Likes (0) • Comment • Share Show moreShow less Actions Hide new activityStart following in InboxMark unreadMark read 4 comments1 new update Show earlier Xander Bakker 3 weeks ago Hi Hikurangi Forest Farms Ltd , I think it is better to post this not as a blog but as a new question (discussion). A blog does not offer the tools for others to include code highlighting and attachments. The roads.zip contains a file "easte_clip.ige" that decompresses to > 4 GB... that's a pretty big file. Are you sure it is the most efficient format for this data? Like Show 0 Likes (0) • Helpful Yes | No • Reply Actions Xander Bakker (to Xander Bakker) 3 weeks ago I revised the ige file and it seems that the clip was performed maintaining the extent of the input DEM. This is why the compression is so high. I see you intersected the roads with the "skid" polygons. There are however a few aspects I don't quite understand: I would expect the road to assume the elevation of the skid polygon if it crosses it and in this polygon it doesn't I would also expect that the road would end at the "skid" elevation. In this example it doesn't. The two roads (cyan and blue) connect, but the from height for the blue road is 554, while the elevation of the cyan would be between 527 and 528. In that case they don't match at the intersection. This could be solved if the cyan road would be split at the intersection and the tool would be executed again. It would be good to include the URL to thread you refer to: I have a Polyline Feature class that I wish to maintain in 3D Editing Like Show 0 Likes (0) • Helpful Yes | No • Reply Actions Hikurangi Forest Farms Ltd (to Xander Bakker) 4 days ago Sorry I have been away, Needed time out and away from the slow pace of life on the coast. Sadly Xander Bakker your assumptions are not altogether what I was trying to achieve. What I was trying to demonstrate here is that the Skid is a height not defined by the entry or exit elevation of the road that intersects it. But by a nominated height value that the entity that will in the future build the landing at decides on. So in effect they are lifting or dropping the road end height to a value that is not derived from the Surface but a dead reckoning value that is determined really on engineering principles of not moving too much dirt around . I.e. if the dirt in hillside they cut part of the landing from is equal to say 20cubic metres of dirt, they now have 20 cubic metres of dirt to fill the road(s) up to the landing height or fill part of the landing to make a flat surface to work from. This also means that this flat surface determines the start height of the next section of road and the underlying original surface is altered in elevation by it in a physical sense. but from this planning phase the height is merely a constant value a harvest planner has keyed into the skid height field. Does this make sense. I am a complete noob when it comes to using these forums for anything really. how would I go about linking to the URL of our first discussion, and where are the toolsets to create a new discussion...or move this into such an enivironment? Thanks Mat Like Show 0 Likes (0) • Helpful Yes | No • Reply Actions You are mentioned in this content Xander Bakker (to Hikurangi Forest Farms Ltd) 4 days ago Hi Hikurangi Forest Farms Ltd , I don't think you can convert an existing blog post into a discussion, but you can create a new discussion (mark it as a question) and copy the content of your post into the new thread (and attach the data): To include a link to the other thread you can copy this link I have a Polyline Feature class that I wish to maintain in 3D Editing into the thread when you create it. I think it is possible to write a script that extracts the height of the skids and if not available at start of end point to use the height of the DEM and define the slope of the road based on that.

‎06-25-2015

Hi Xander Bakker I now have a very complex question to put a spanner in the works of the original Python Script. to apply a 3D value to a polyline. (road) It appears that the user needs to determine the elevation of landings that cross over or are along parts of the road, the trouble with these landings is that they are a level flat surface at a as yet unknown elevation, but somewhere near the elevation of a neutral cut fill balance of the soil needed to make them flat. so what this does is determines that the start and finish point on each polyline is at a different elevation than the underlying surface. I have toyed with the idea to make a new surface superimposing these landing flat areas into that surface, that in its own right has an issue because it is very user interactive to determine each elevation of each landing. These landings because they are flat also alter the gradient of the road either side of them as each road section is now shorter . What I considered doing was to give each landing a static elevation (they are polygons) and superimpose them as a hard breakline in the surface. is this the most logical approach? is there a way to interactively use these landings as a height source without making a surface first. The other part to this is not every road has these landings on them so I cant just say use them all. as some (many) roads still need elevations from the underlying surface. being the DEM. Any guidance would be appreciated, thank you. Mathieu

‎06-16-2015

Very clever, now to give the same points width ie make the road 7 metres total width and to quantify the volume cut or filled from the 3d surface and the new 3d Road surface, I suppose I could get a property of the road direction or buffer these points by a 3.5 metre wide buy half the distance to the next or previous point and make that a rectangle and also place this rectangle on the same gradient. i.e. two from corners are half the height difference to the previous entity, and the two to corners are half the height difference to the next two corners (this may not work too well in a bend sense, maybe I have to buffer with the round function so as each polygon at least sort of meets up. Realistically I was going to generate a new surface at a set width from the road centreline and be able to use this surface as a slice line to quantify volume above or below the original surface. I know I dont want much, if too hard I understand, as you lost me in how you got to where we are a while back, all I know is it does work to visualise the result So I thank you for that. Now I want to quantify it in terms of volume differences between the surfaces. and in so doing built a "pseudo road engineering package" out of GIS. Which is so cool I think Thanks Xander Bakker

‎06-11-2015

Hi Xander Both to symbolize and to quantify cuts and fills into volume in cubic meters would be the ultimate goal. Again sort of goal, because potentially I could then start optimizing the volume variation to try to minimize the volume of soil moved. As this is a green fields plan that seems to spawn from one need to the next. People are starting to realize the capability of GIS in the planning and civil / survey engineering sense. Allowing early decision models to be built on what if scenarios. In this case during the planning phase of new Harvest roads, and where they are being positioned for the least disturbance to the environment and possibly/probably the maximum return on capital spent. Doing so in a package that is not a CAD or civil road engineering design package seems logical to me too. As it will at minimum fill the gap between engineering design of every forest road section and peg layout in the field without much more than dead reckoning. Anyway back on Subject I welcome all input into this topic as it can and does spawn ideas that can be taken further in a wide range of 3D modelling scenarios. Cheers Mat

‎06-11-2015

Sounds great, keep me informed if you don't mind I am always looking at ways to improve these processes. I hadn't taken the similarity to pipelines as to what I am trying to achieve but their is certainly a lot of "shared fabric" in a 3D sense. Thanks again Mat

‎06-10-2015

@Xander Bakker Yes because I only really need to know the 3Dlength of height variation, the assumption is that if the line is going from it's start point to it's finish point with a gradual continuous slope along the same line xy vertices to vertices ie as though the surface beneath the road is a continuous angled slope then I would need to apportion the variation in Z from vertices to vertices proportionately based on their xy location. This may be where the other Add surface information calculate functions come back into play, as mentioned in one of your first posts. Basically I am making a new surface from the height of the start point to the height of the finish point and then working out the 3D length of the same line on top of that new surface.. IE cutting it into a hill or filling a valley as appropriate. If see where I am getting to? I will explain, I will want to eventually compare one surface to the next and determine these cuts and fills as surface volume of difference.

‎06-10-2015

Thanks @Richard Fairhurst that is another approach to getting the 3D length updated which is great if you shift lines, be good to look at how you did this so I could potentially use the same method to update start and finish point Z values

‎06-10-2015

Yes Thanks Again Xander Bakker I realise the 3D length will not provide the "right" result but the difference in altitude of the first point vs. the last point in each segment will have a true length between them i.e. not in a flat 2D sense length. I was thinking of just applying basic trig as follows: (But only If I can be sure that the Z has not been accounted for already in this way?) i.e. A²+ B² = √C or (zdif * zdif ) + (polyline.length * polyline.length) = (Squareroot 3dlength) Re your Absolute Slope, Thats a great approach, I was going to take the easy way, Reselect all Gradient less than zero and then multiply selected values by negative 1 And as for the lines outside of the DEM I have a similar selection process as above... I have a bounding polygon extent of the DEM, so I perform a select by location of Road features that are completely contained by the bounding polygons, then only perform the calculation on those records...

‎06-10-2015

Great Stuff @Xander Bakker I must get into the nut and bolts of geometry using Python myself, it will save me plenty of heartache. Populating the 18000 records the first time took a bit but looks to be plain sailing running the code on small subsets. as will be the case hourly from now on. So for that, awesome effort. I was also thinking if I should differentiate between up and down slope (-/+ ve) gradients mainly because I just am lazy and don't want to make a symbol set with both negative and positive values that looks the same color range in both directions. I might also just populate the Z values of the start and finish point plus (maybe) consider the 3d Length of the line between the start and finish point as it may impact the overall gradient a little . I am not sure reading what you have done thinks in a 3d sense or planimetric sense for the distance between start and finish points. I also may need to do some error trapping if the polyline falls outside the extent of the DEM. (No such thing as a perfect world especially if it is displayed as incomplete data as is the case here for me.).

‎06-09-2015

I know what you mean, the truth is engineers place the line at strategic locations to minimize the possibility of creating the variance that you describe, and generally these sections represent the start and finish height of each section of road. to create an overall gradient between the two locations, the peice in the middle is just the effort amount to get to the finished requirement, but we first need to know that the gradient is not too steep overall, the balancing (or lack thereof)of cuts and fills is really the nuts and bolts of getting the grade from one point to the next right. I have Arc Pro, but need to come up to speed with that too As 3D editing is not so obvious as yet. I have used the Guidelines for editing features with base height properties in 3D—Help | ArcGIS for Desktop And yet still am up against it.

‎06-09-2015

Thanks Xander, But Sadly that only finds Max and Min plus Mean Z it will not interpolate the Z at the beginning and end of the Polyline which is what i need. generally the Max and Min are not always at the start or finish of each line. I have got a little further with using ArcScene in that if I have a very small surface model (250 hectares in size) it seems to be a lot more stable in that environment. Strictly speaking I dont even wish to render the surface model in 3d anyway . a 2D view to digitize is fine, I just want the extract Z heights as above. I could break my surface model into hundred of tiles but that also seems a bit of a compromise. especially when trying to associate the Polyline with the correct surface model under it.

‎06-09-2015

Hi All, I'm looking for guidance or a miracle.. I have a Polyline feature class that is Z aware when first built but to adjust and add new features to it. It seems I can only create another Feature class with the updated Z aware Polyline features. and generally having to delete and replace data in the database to maintain the static dataset. I have tried ArcScene to edit in 3d with very limited success, ie it takes about 10 minutes to digitize a line of 15 vertices 250 metres long (display performance is slow). And then often it will not populate the Z attribute of the vertices along the line, I have only been successful once. (I have tried different Elevation Sources from Raster to TIN and a few others TIF etc). If I restart the same session and reload the ArcScene document the next day and add a new feature it again takes 10 minutes and has lost the z awareness, The Polyline Layer knows the Elevations are derived from the 3D Surface but it will not populate the Z value. I would actually prefer to edit the Z aware features in ArcMap as it is linked to another relational database so if I split a polyline in half it's ID also needs to be updated in the relational database with appropriate new records added. The 3D line itself only really needs it's Start point and Finish point Z values to be known as I am trying to calculate Gradient of the line over the surface. To me this sounds like basic 3D editing but I am surprised that I cannot do it easily or quickly. as all I am wanting is the Z value interpolated from the surface to be stored with the Polyline itself. Why change Polyline features you ask? Well it is all about decision processes of determining Gradient and keeping the gradient within physical constraints such as 12% slope between end points. If you shift the polyline up or down the surface in XY, the Z value has to change also, so I need to reflect this in as near as possible to real time during the editing process, whilst maintaining the links to the relational database. I am just at a loss as to how to achieve this easily. The modifications could encompass 50 -100 alterations in any one session, and one gradient change affects the next polyline gradient in the network of line features. Thanks Mat Boonen , Hikurangi . NZ

‎05-20-2015

Really the raster surface is 5m in that it was derived from a tin data which in turn was derived from 5 metre contour with spotheight data , I have converted the tin to a 2m raster for the sake of trying to pick up variations between the contours more so than the contours allow for themselves. Eventually I am looking forward to LIDAR data with 4 returns per square metre so that will make a life like surface of the estate. Thanks

‎05-20-2015

Thanks yes I wished to do so but for some reason the Forestry group was greyed out and I couldn't select it, and in as far as Natural resources were concerned I didn't want to frighten anyone with concerns about disturbing "natural" landscapes. even though all of our plantation forests have been planted on ex cattle and sheep farms that have been identified as too steep for these land uses causing all sorts of erosion problems.

‎05-20-2015

The Roads at planting time were created with no view to be suitable for Harvesting, they often have too tight radius bends or are too steep to be used by logging trucks. If they do exist and are in the right location we do utilise them but it is more an exception than the rule.

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My Ideas

Latest Contributions by MathieuBoonen

Looking for suggestions on interactive script editing to determine Gradient

Re: I have a Polyline Feature class that I wish to maintain in 3D Editing

Re: I have a Polyline Feature class that I wish to maintain in 3D Editing

Re: I have a Polyline Feature class that I wish to maintain in 3D Editing

Re: I have a Polyline Feature class that I wish to maintain in 3D Editing

Re: I have a Polyline Feature class that I wish to maintain in 3D Editing

Re: I have a Polyline Feature class that I wish to maintain in 3D Editing

Re: I have a Polyline Feature class that I wish to maintain in 3D Editing

Re: I have a Polyline Feature class that I wish to maintain in 3D Editing

Re: I have a Polyline Feature class that I wish to maintain in 3D Editing

Re: I have a Polyline Feature class that I wish to maintain in 3D Editing

I have a Polyline Feature class that I wish to maintain in 3D Editing

Re: How To: Determine the best position for a road network through a Plantation forest

Re: How To: Determine the best position for a road network through a Plantation forest

Re: How To: Determine the best position for a road network through a Plantation forest

Re: Survey123 Feature Report - Conditional Formatt...

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Esri Forestry Group (EFG)