Request to split ArcGIS geoprocessing forum into subtopics

[ChrisSnyder]

Hi,

I noticed that the ArcGIS "Functions" forum topics have the following breakdown as of 08/09/2010:


(apologies for the poor formatting...)
FORUM----------------------------THREADS%-------POSTS%
-------------------------------------------------------------------
CAD Data--------------------------1.00%------------0.64%
Cartography-----------------------4.44%------------4.36%
Data Models-----------------------3.08%------------2.14%
Enterprise GIS--------------------0.79%------------0.42%
Geocoding-------------------------0.36%------------0.16%
Geodatabases/ArcSDE------------27.22%----------27.94%
Geoprocessing--------------------45.27%-----------48.01%
Imagery/Raster Data-------------12.61%-----------12.11%
Interoperability and Standards--1.29%-------------0.73%
Map Automation------------------3.15%-------------3.18%
Map Templates--------------------0.79%-------------0.31%
Nautical Mapping------------------0.00%-------------0.00% (Nautical Mapping?)
----------------------------------------------------------------
TOTAL------------------------------100%--------------100%

Based on this summary, it is quite easy to see that the Geoprocessing forum topic has by far the most traffic in terms of thread topics and "chatter" about those topics. I would like to formally request that esri split the existing Geoprocessing forum topic into at least three subtopics:

1. Geoprocessing (General)
2. ModelBuilder
3. Scripting (e.g. Python) - Personally I would put 'Map Automation via Python scripting' in here as well since it is so related...

Another simpler option would be to just create a new forum topic called "Scripting" 🙂

As a dedicated contributor to the poorly organized existing Geoprocessing forum, I find it hard to continue my contributions when there is an ever-increasing volume of seemingly non-relevant thread posts and an ever increasing level of disorganization within (in it's current state) an EXTREEMLY broad topic that obviously needs to be split into at least several sub-topics. in it's current incarnation, it includes nearly half of all the posts in the entire ArcGIS "Functions" category. Seems a bit out of whack to me...

Also, I have to say it: I am baffled that there is an apparently new forum topic called "Nautical Mapping" (0 posts so far), and NOT a dedicated ModelBuilder or Scripting forum. Cmon... Nautical Mapping? :confused: What the?!?!

Please esri - I am not alone in my frustrations here...

[TedCronin]

...That way if someone asks a question and the disscussion turns to python, anyone looking for posts with a python tag will see those threads only. This would be implimented as "sub-forums" so that users could view the entire GP area or only those posts pertaining to thier interest.

Like a filter, that would be nice.  Something that can be set, even on our original settings for our user name, where we set specific tags to "Look Out For".  Not sure if that is what is in reference here, but do like that idea.

[JimBarry]

I'm not voting one way or another, mainly because I see the benefits of both methods.

I just want to say that I see a good number of "workflow" posts...."how do I start this" or "how would I go about achieving goal X".
Very quickly someone will offer a "do it in ModelBuilder" or "you need to script that".
It would be hard for the original poster to put that question in the appropriate forum from the start. Or once they got an answer its now in a general forum instead of the scripting form. (And I don't say that with the thought of moving the original post...theres a lot of overhead on that).

The tagging idea (while I don't know if the forum technology supports it) would be a cool idea. The tags could give everyone the best of all worlds. One area for your GP questions, but if it ends up being a Python specific question, add the tag and everyone who loves Python can quickly find that post.

On the one hand, these forums do support adding tags to threads.  Scroll to the bottom of each to see where they can be added.    As a practical matter, this would only be a strong solution if there were well-known and agreed upon (then learned and remembered) tag standards, applied to all appropriate threads all the time.  How well or poorly this is done will determine how large the cracks are where threads fall.  

That's why I'm thinking the most practical solution are either to keep the GP thread together as one, or to split them into two or three discrete and logical groups.   That way it's more plain to everyone which discussions go where, and no one has to remember if, when, or how to tag anything.

If we split them, I would recommend that we don't put the word "..General" into any of their names.  What we saw with the old forums is that the "..General" forum ends up being the sock drawer.   There might be an MB forum and a PY forum, but they'll be an illusion as we all find that lots of MB and PY conversations (and General GP questions that straddle MB and PY) end up there too.

[JimBarry]

Yes, I think we should keep the I would keep the gp-MB-py grouping together grouping, but please no ArcObjects, unless its using comtypes with arcpy.

Understood.   There is already an all-ArcObjects forum, and it would seem logical that it should remain as such until the data shows otherwise.

[ChrisSnyder]

I think that the tagging idea, like Jim hinted at, would be difficult to implement. For example:

1) Would a newbie forum user even know if/how/where to tag their post?
2) Would placement of tags be enforced somehow?
3) How would tag spelling and syntax be enforced (Python vs. Pie-thon etc.)

Many of us that contribute to the forum have a great deal of knowledge in specialty areas, and I personally feel that having more narrowly focused forum topics like:

1) Scripting
2) ModelBuilder
3) Geoprocessing Tools & Workflow

would allow both posters and contributors alike to more efficiently concentrate their time/energy to find the best solutions to problems in the shortest amount of time.

[DanPatterson_Retired]

See Bill Huber's August 13 submission at
http://forums.arcgis.com/threads/1887-MVP-Program-for-Discussion-Forums
for cross-link ideas

[ChrisMathers]

I think that Bills "cross link" idea is good but contains a flaw. In my mind I see this as implimenting a crawler in the forum that indexes keywords from the posts instead of (or on top of) manual tagging. I think the only issue with this is that if the crawler isnt sophisticated enough it may see "You could do this with python instead of ArcObjects more quickly" in one post and "You should really be doing this with ArcObjects" in another and would put both into the ArcObjects forum.

Another issue would be whether the crawler indexes on only the first post or on replys as well. Indexing both would solve the problem of a poster not knowing where to put their post, but could result in massive cross posting depending on how lively the replys get. A GP post could in theory wind up in python, MB, ArcObjects, and in the extension forums.

In the end this is suggesting a robust auto-tagging system with the forums being querys on the tags instead of being traditional forums.

[DaveBouwman]

Here's the thing - "GeoProcessing" as a concept has multiple implementations, and while many times they can be "equal" in terms of output, they are very different in terms of audience and situational constraints.

For example - in my opinion, ModelBuilder is evil. This may or may not be the actual case, but since I come from a coding background, I'm highly skeptical of any draggy-droppy code magic thing. I do however groove with Python, and massively appreciate the productivity gains as compared to ArcObjects.

And similarly, for people who come from a pure "GIS Analyst" background, never to have their minds corrupted with the various incarnations of ITopologicalOperator, ModelBuilder is pure awesome.

By lumping these two types of users and the associated tooling into one forum, you're doing a disservice to everyone. Forums only work if they are quick and easy to use, especially for the power-users who are likely to actually contribute answers to the conversation.

So - split'em...

Forum a) Draggers & Droppers (The Dark Arts of Model Builder)
Forum b) White space matters (Zen and the Art of ArcPy)

Cheers,

Dave

[ChrisSergent]

I would like to see Geoprocessing having a section specific to ArcGIS Server. Specifically I would like to see some ArcGIS Server Python examples.

Chris

Is this Geoprocessing discussion forum too broad, too big, too general?

Should we consider splitting it up into smaller topics?

Perhaps:
a.  Geoprocessing - General
b.  Modelbuilder
c.  Python
d. ...

Or what do you suggest?   Or should GP discussions be all in one single forum like it is today?

What do you think?

[TedCronin]

Forum a) Draggers & Droppers (The Dark Arts of Model Builder)
Forum b) White space matters (Zen and the Art of ArcPy)

Now this I like.

[DanPatterson_Retired]

Forum a) Draggers & Droppers (The Dark Arts of Model Builder)
Forum b) White space matters (Zen and the Art of ArcPy)
Forum C) Far too much overhead (ArcObjects)

And a amplfication to b)  syntax matters
Splitting is not an option, the user needs to be "trained" to formulate their questions appropriately.. with tags or whatever.