My question is pretty simple - Why?

29958
49
07-20-2016 05:15 AM
PaulJordan
New Contributor III


Why ArcGIS Pro?  I can't find anything to like about this application.  The flat GUI makes everything look like background.  The app crashes with alarming regularity.  The interface is worlds away from that of ArcGIS.  Why?   And as with previous major releases it almost seems that the development team had no contact with the developers of ArcGIS desktop.  One might think that the radical changes are a deliberate attempt to force users into ESRI training programs for a hefty fee.

Bottom line - not at all happy with Pro.

49 Replies
RupertGonzalez
New Contributor

Drew - It's great that ESRI listens constructively.

In that spirit, this is off the mark: "This is actually one of the reasons that Pro IS multi-threaded: it's ability to run geoprocessing in a dedicated thread so that other work can be done in the app while a tool is running."

"Multi-threaded" in parallel processing does not mean "two threads". Using one thread for a GUI and just one other thread for a single, non-parallel background process does not qualify as "multi-threaded" today. Today people want thousands of threads in CPU and GPU, not just two threads.

Regarding: "At the 2.0 release, ArcGIS Pro has more than 50 Desktop tools that leverage distributed processing to use multiple cores or spawn multiple processes to do parallel processing."

You need to do that but it only gets you to where parallel development was years ago. Not enough to catch up. I meant ESRI should implement ArcGIS Pro as a fully parallel application. Pro is brilliant. It is worth the effort to do the job right. 

Using a non-parallel ArcGIS Pro together with a collection of parallel geoprocessing tools to be introduced in 2.0 does not make ArcGIS Pro a parallel application. It will remain a non-parallel application that can use some parallel external tools, basically in batch mode.

Adding parallel geoprocessing tools has benefits, I agree. At least those jobs that can be compartmentalized can go faster. But there are limitations to that approach that have caused it to be left behind by more advanced parallel developers:

- A mix of non-parallel and parallel code is error prone. All-parallel applications are more reliable.

- Separate parallel modules usually require more user expertise. Reading the Parallel Processing Factor link I get the impression 2.0 will be that way. Users do not want to learn or to think about parallelism. They just want the software to run faster and better. Users want parallelism invisibly and automatically integrated throughout an application.

- Calling parallel geoprocessing tools from non-parallel Pro is like having a one-lane road that connects to a segment of 16 lane highway that connects back to a one-lane road again. Modern architecture is 16 lane highway all the way.

- Users want parallel speed all of the time in the main application too. Nobody wants a slow interface because it is using one thread out of 16 or 32. I saw a Reddit video how a parallel package interactively triangulated 5 million points in one second. Pro should do that too.

- You must have state of the art GPU parallelism. Keeping GPU busy requires a fully CPU parallel host. A non-parallel main application can't do that.

- Adding 50 parallel modules is weak compared to thousands of built-in GPU and CPU parallel capabilities a strong package will have. 

Regarding GeoAnalytics on clusters using Spark, that is worlds away from a parallel desktop application. Listen to what people are telling you about Pro and being tied to remote servers. They don't like it.

My comment about taking two or three seconds what takes Pro hours was my mistake. When I wrote "seconds" I was thinking of a demo where a parallel package did in nine seconds what Q could not do in many hours (Delaunay triangulation). For Pro I should have written "two or three minutes" not seconds. Still harsh.

I have seen parallel software demos doing CPU/GPU computations in SQL 50 to 500 times faster than anything else. It does in two or three seconds what Arc takes minutes, or with bigger data does in two or three minutes what Arc takes hours. That seems to be mostly GPU parallelism.

2.0 is necessary but not sufficient. What you should do is parallelize all of ArcGIS Pro so all of it runs with parallel CPU and also parallel GPU. Instead of spending years re-inventing the wheel ESRI should just buy somebody that has it. Don't make people wait like they had to wait for 64-bit.

curtvprice
MVP Esteemed Contributor
It uses GPU as GPU was used 15 years ago, for rendering, not as GPU is used today for massively parallel GPGPU computation.   

Amen. I really hope Esri is looking into using the GPU for processing - thanks to gamers, we have amazing processing power in our graphic adapters that have the potential to really turbocharge GIS workflows. There's some amazing stuff going on leveraging GPUs. Esri should be doing this too.

Honestly, I still am yet unimpressed by the potential of distributed computing -- maybe because I live life on a vulnerable .gov network which, when not being attacked, is being aggressively blocked in an attempt to protect ourselves. I find Pro behaves a lot better when I turn off the all the nifty basemaps and ArcGIS online connections because our network latency. Life is not always easy out here.

0 Kudos
ThomasColson
MVP Frequent Contributor

What really get's me wrapped around the axle about Pro is ESRI's response to the folks pointing out lack of functionality "...submit an "idea"..." or "...explain your business case....". Someone in ESRI is drinking the Agile Kool-Aide on this project. Microsoft Office managed to port to 64 bit without eliminating 99% of its core tools. 

JakeKrall
Occasional Contributor III

Esri, please respond to Thomas Colson (been over 3 months since his post).  Why the functionality is lacking and why we have to "submit an 'idea'..." every time we want to get a function added back?

0 Kudos
KoryKramer
Esri Community Moderator

Hi Jake, we responded to Thomas Colson‌ in https://community.esri.com/thread/195484-quitting-desktop-cold-turkey on June 16th this year.

Thank you.

MaribethPrice
Occasional Contributor

I had an interesting experience last week.  I've been hitting Pro hard and exclusively for the last 4-5 months white writing my new text manuscript and developing workshops.  Then I got the page proofs for my latest ArcMap text and had to go back to ArcMap and review the tutorials with  version 10.5.1. My first reaction as I began work, OMG -- how clunky!

So one does get used to Pro, although this may be good or bad news depending on how you view it. Still think the new default symbols are ugly and awkward, though.

maribeth

DT
by
New Contributor III

Redesign, or at least recoding, is necessary for 64 bit.  However, there's no excuse for the lack of continuity with Desktop.  If you think deeper into all the changes and missing functionality, it's very apparent that Pro (and office 2016 for that matter) was designed for touch screens where you don't have things like right-click (at least not as reliable or ergonomic) or multiple monitors to dock menus and toolbars. I even wonder if the developers designed this application on a touch pad.  The heavy lifting doesn't get done on a touch pad. Keep the ribbons and minimalistic short cut menus for light weight apps used for viewing the work generated on a full-blown machine.  My feedback is the same for Office 2016. 

anna_garrett
Occasional Contributor III

Sorry for the thread necromancy, but are there any plans to implement Parcel Fabrics in Pro? That's what we work in here, and I have no idea what I'm going to do if ArcMap's retired and there's no Parcel Fabric solution available. 

0 Kudos
KoryKramer
Esri Community Moderator

Anna, parcel management is coming to ArcGIS Pro.  See the https://community.esri.com/community/gis/applications/arcgis-pro/blog/2017/07/10/arcgis-pro-roadmap?...

We'll likely see that next year. 

In the meantime, ArcMap isn't being retired anytime soon.  There are answers to those concerns provided in the Esri UC Q & A from this year: Questions and Answers | 2017 Esri User Conference 

anna_garrett
Occasional Contributor III

Thank you for the quick answer, Kory! I look forward to trying out ArcGIS Pro, just haven't been able to justify it yet because I couldn't test the features I use the most