A big problem

[MatthewLawton]

I've only been cruising the Flex forum for about a week or so, but I have identified some big problems that I wish to share. I'm wondering if any of you agree with these points and perhaps there can be something done (ESRI) to address these problems.

1. We have a sticky on this forum from early July that links to an "archived forum" (aka the "old forums"), however, in case you guys haven't noticed, the old posts in that forum have gone bye bye. Am I missing something here? Is there another way to access these old forums that you guys are passing around behind my back with a secret handshake?

2. Assuming that these old forum posts really are gone forever, then I have to say ARE YOU NUTS!!! Do you know how much valuable knowledge was contained in those forum posts? I haven't been doing much development in Flex until the past couple of weeks, but I have been working with the JavaScript API since May 2009 and all of those forum posts are gone too! They are an invaluable resource!

3. From my observation, the Sample Flex Viewer 2.0 is still very much a beta product. Despite the heroic efforts of Robert Scheitlin, and a few other forum MVPs, as a beginner I am finding it difficult to impossible to create a functional application using Flash Builder 4 and the SFV 2.0 template. Granted a lot of this is due to my lack of knowledge and experience, but at least some of it is due to the fact that this platform is new and unproven and lacks much of the necessary documentation.

4. Why did the old forum posts disappear, ESRI? Was there a mistake and they will reappear soon? Are there technical difficulties with maintaining the old forum? Are you trying to discourage users from going to the old forums by making them disappear entirely? Are you forcing Flex development to be performed solely in FB4, even though your own sample application is still in a beta version?

So here is my quandary, do I press on with SFV 2.0 and Flash Builder 4, hoping that things will get better while my boss breathes down my neck waiting for results? Or do I go back to Flex Builder 3 and SFV 1.3, a more proven platform, but one lacking a large knowledge base that is no longer available? Or do I abandon Flex entirely and go back to the JavaScript API where I have had much more success?

Maybe my questions are off-base or maybe they have already been addressed somewhere. If so, please let me know.

[MatthewLawton]

Okay, I just realized that the reason no forum threads appear in the old forums is because they have been locked for over a month, so obviously there has been no activity in the last 30 days. Fortunately, the filter and search still work and the old posts are still there. This solves issues #1, #2, and #4. I am still facing issue #3 and am strongly considering a reversion back to the SFV 1.3 and FB3 at this point.

[RobertScheitlin__GISP]

Matthew,

From my observation, the Sample Flex Viewer 2.0 is still very much a beta product

Yep it is still very much in Beta, and it's documentation is as well that is the whole thing with early Beta adoption is that you have to deal with bugs, lack of some functionality and unfinished documentation.

One very big thing I have to point out to FLEX API users is that the API is a free product that you pay absolutely nothing for. You can use the API even if you have no esri software, by using free map services that are available through ArcGIS online. That being said if so many people are wanting a things to be just like other ESRI products then be prepared to have esri change their minds on the free portion and begin charging us for the API's. I don't think that esri or any of us want them to do this. Just my opinion, nothing personal Matthew I just have been watching this forum for a very long time now and people tend to forget that the API is free.

[JoshuaKalov]

Matthew,



Yep it is still very much in Beta, and it's documentation is as well that is the whole thing with early Beta adoption is that you have to deal with bugs, lack of some functionality and unfinished documentation.

One very big thing I have to point out to FLEX API users is that the API is a free product that you pay absolutely nothing for. You can use the API even if you have no esri software, by using free map services that are available through ArcGIS online. That being said if so many people are wanting a things to be just like other ESRI products then be prepared to have esri change their minds on the free portion and begin charging us for the API's. I don't think that esri or any of us want them to do this. Just my opinion, nothing personal Matthew I just have been watching this forum for a very long time now and people tend to forget that the API is free.

I guess technically its free, but I think that isn't really true in practice.  I am using the Flex API/Viewer because we pay for and use ESRI ArcGIS Server.  If we weren't using Server, there would be no reason to use the API's.  People are using the APIs to access ESRI services, most often their own ArcGIS Server services.  ArcGIS Server is an incredibly expensive product that with the depreciation of WebADF and ArcIMS has no viewer other than the APIs/FlexViewer.  I consider the APIs to be a part of the ArcGIS Server package and have their costs built into the ArcGIS Server cost.  I think the APIs are a minimum requirement for inclusion with such an expensive piece of software like ArcGIS Server, not some extra bonus.

[MatthewLawton]

Thanks, Robert. A very good point and well taken. However I think Joshua and I are on the same page. As a member of an organization that pays over $70,000 per year in maintenance to ESRI, I do hope and wish for more from them.

I don't mean to fill up the forums with my rant, but I do believe that there are others in this same position out there. My organization first deployed web mapping solutions via ArcIMS about 9 years ago. In 2007, with the release of the Web ADF for ArcGIS Server, it became very apparent that the days of ArcIMS were numbered. At that time we were told by ESRI that .NET was the way to go and we had better get on board so that we wouldn't get caught off-guard when ArcIMS went away.

Two years later, after much frustration with Visual Studio and VB.NET (after all, I am a geographer, which used to matter at some point way back when) the Flex and JavaScript API's were revealed. Within 30 minutes of playing with the JavaScript API, I knew that was the direction for me to go. The skills I had developed supporting ArcIMS were directly applicable. But for the past year, whenever I debuted a new JavaScript API application (I support 6 of them now) we were always asked by our ESRI sales rep, "Why didn't you develop it in Flex?"

It made me feel as if I was really missing out on something by not using the Flex API. I tried to develop an app with Flex back in November 2009. After a frustrating week, I decided to abandon that effort and continue with the JavaScript API. Now we are in August 2010. I heard all the hype from the User Conference about the new version of Flex, so here I am again trying to make it work. But after nearly 40 hours of reading and tinkering this past week, I am still left with a beta template website with some modified colors, a different title, and some broken tools.

Maybe Flex is just beyond me. Maybe I should just stick with the JavaScript API. At least I will have an answer the next time our sales rep asks me why I am not developing in Flex.

[RobertScheitlin__GISP]

Mathew and Joshua,

   I can see both of your points once the full featured java and .net web adfs are actually gone. But for now you are paying for ArcGIS server that has a good development environment that never claimed to be for non developers. Once the web adfs are actually gone then I have full confidence that esri will have the APIs and their viewers ready to step up and take their place. That point they will no longer be in Beta and be tried and proven. I have to say that at times it is hard for me to grasp why people have difficulty with the flex or .net environments as I have always found my answers in the samples or on the forums or been provided assistance form one of the esri staff. So either the JS, Flex, Silverlight or sharepoint whichever you choose just keep at it and post questions to the forums 🙂

[DrewDowling]

with the depreciation of WebADF

:D:D:D:D:D

It still brings a smile to my face when I read it.