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Edit spatial data with "ArcGIS for Desktop 10.1" in non-SDE RDBMS systems?

danan

(Caveat: More properly this is an ArcGIS Desktop question. I posted there first with no response: http://forums.arcgis.com/threads/35648-Edit-spatial-data-with-quot-ArcGIS-for-Desktop-10.1-quot-in-non-SDE-RDBMS-systems

At the UC it was said you can now access spatial and tabular data in other RDBMS systems without SDE. At 10 this was true on a read-only basis with Query Layers. At 10.1, can users now also *edit* spatial data in non-SDE instances using "ArcGIS for Desktop" (ArcMap)? The use case: being able to edit SDO_GEOMETRY data (Oracle Spatial) on an Oracle instance that is not itself a geodatabase. Of course you wouldn't have an ArcSDE versioning workflow. But can you do short-transaction edits to Oracle Spatial?

If you can't edit non-SDE spatial data at 10.1, is there a third party solution that will do this? What about ArcGIS Desktop 10? Is there a third party editing solution that will enable it to edit non-SDE Oracle Spatial data?

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VinceAngelo

I haven't heard of any current applications, but it seems as though you'd be able to submit any
SQL statement you'd like through ODBC, which would include an UPDATE command with the
Oracle- (or other-) specific syntax to change geometries. It would be tedious, but possible.

Questions about possible future functionality would be more appropriately directed to your
marketing representative and/or ideas.esri.com.

- V

danan

I haven't heard of any current applications, but it seems as though you'd be able to submit any
SQL statement you'd like through ODBC, which would include an UPDATE command with the
Oracle- (or other-) specific syntax to change geometries. It would be tedious, but possible.

Questions about possible future functionality would be more appropriately directed to your
marketing representative and/or ideas.esri.com.

- V

Thank you Vince. I'll review my notes from the 2011 Int'l UC. Could have sworn this functionality was mentioned in the morning Plenary. Will pursue the issue offline unless anyone out there knows the answer.

DerekLaw

Hi Dana,

... At the UC it was said you can now access spatial and tabular data in other RDBMS systems without SDE. At 10 this was true on a read-only basis with Query Layers. At 10.1, can users now also *edit* spatial data in non-SDE instances using "ArcGIS for Desktop" (ArcMap)? ...

ArcGIS Server 10.1 will include a new technology component called Spatial Data Server (SDS). It is a separate installation from ArcGIS Server and will be included with all editions of ArcGIS Server. SDS is a low-memory footprint application that enables you to publish feature services of your vector data stored in a database or geodatabase. SDS will allow you to edit spatial data in a standard database and does not require ArcSDE technology. Editing for SDS is done via the REST API only which ArcMap does not support at this time.

From Jack's 2011 pre-UC Q&A:

More information will be available in the ArcGIS 10.1 help documentation, which should be available when ArcGIS 10.1 beta starts.

Hope this helps,

danan

Hi Dana,
ArcGIS Server 10.1 will include a new technology component called Spatial Data Server (SDS). It is a separate installation from ArcGIS Server and will be included with all editions of ArcGIS Server. SDS is a low-memory footprint application that enables you to publish feature services of your vector data stored in a database or geodatabase. SDS will allow you to edit spatial data in a standard database and does not require ArcSDE technology. Editing for SDS is done via the REST API only which ArcMap does not support at this time.

From Jack's 2011 pre-UC Q&A:

How does ArcGIS Server 10.1 improve access to databases?
How is ArcGIS Server 10.1 more IT friendly?
More information will be available in the ArcGIS 10.1 help documentation, which should be available when ArcGIS 10.1 beta starts.
Hope this helps,

Thanks Derek. That helps a lot. Post 10.1, is there any chance the AGS and Desktop teams are working on a way to allow ArcGIS for Desktop to edit data accessed via SDS? Local marketing reps may not know the answer. @Vince, I've suggested to the person whose Use Case this is that they post their requirements to http://ideas.arcgis.com as you've suggested. It's a great feedback mechanism. I encourage others to use it at every opportunity.

But SDS probably won't help the person whose Use Case I've described. Though I don't know all the details, that person (FOAF) seems to be forced to abandon the entire AGS stack in favor of Oracle Spatial. But an SDS whose data could be edited with ArcGIS for Desktop could have great utility for others. Weird though. If you can't edit non-SDE Oracle Spatial data using ArcGIS for Desktop, what can you edit it with? Some open source Desktop GIS client? Don't know why someone would want to switch if their staff has 1) ArcGIS for Desktop expertise and 2) funding to continue paying for ArcGIS for Desktop licenses.

I also found this bit about SDS in the 2011 UC Closing Session > General Closing Questions area:
http://www.esri.com/events/user-conference/agenda/closing-session-videos.html

Is the Spatial Database Server a Replacement for SDE?
[INDENT]Scott Morehouse: The Spatial Database Server is a web adapter for attaching our geospatial web applications to an enterprise database. The main focus of the SDS is to allow you to mash up or integrate business data that has a spatial component but isn't hosted in a geodatabase. The idea is to integrate non-complex business data with geographic data. ArcSDE and the geodatabase with versioning and long transactions will continue to be supported for the complex schemas we have for things like facility management, geodatabase toplology, etc. For those of you that don't know, the Spatial Database Server creates a geospatial REST interface with any tabular data stored in an RDBMS.

Jack Dangermond: People are interested in the native SQL query abilities of the Spatial Database Server. However, this is not a replacement for SDE. It's an additional way to access SQL info that may have spatial data in it. Richer database models like the geodatabase will continue to be with us.[/INDENT]

DerekLaw

Hi Dana,

... Post 10.1, is there any chance the AGS and Desktop teams are working on a way to allow ArcGIS for Desktop to edit data accessed via SDS? ...

I can't comment on the post-ArcGIS 10.1 development efforts at this time. It's much too early as we're working on completing the 10.1 release.

... If you can't edit non-SDE Oracle Spatial data using ArcGIS for Desktop, what can you edit it with? ...

You can use the Web Mapping APIs (JavaScript, Flex, and Silverlight) since they work with the REST API.

Hope this helps,

danan

Hi Dana,
I can't comment on the post-ArcGIS 10.1 development efforts at this time. It's much too early as we're working on completing the 10.1 release.

You can use the Web Mapping APIs (JavaScript, Flex, and Silverlight) since they work with the REST API.
Hope this helps,

No problem, I understand. Looking forward to 10.1. Especially the new GDB Admin tools (GDBT as core). 🙂 Thanks in advance for that. Big Win for ArcSDE admins.

williamscraigm

All,

Derek's comments about ArcGIS for Desktop 10.1 not being able to edit SDS are incorrect. ArcGIS for Desktop 10.1 can edit SDS and all other types of ArcGIS feature services. These edits are performed via the REST API for SDS and hosted feature services.

If you are in the Beta program, look for a post in the next week on the Beta blogs that covers this functionality.

Craig
Product Engineer
ArcGIS Mapping System Team

danan

All,

Derek's comments about ArcGIS for Desktop 10.1 not being able to edit SDS are incorrect. ArcGIS for Desktop 10.1 can edit SDS and all other types of ArcGIS feature services. These edits are performed via the REST API for SDS and hosted feature services.

If you are in the Beta program, look for a post in the next week on the Beta blogs that covers this functionality.

Craig
Product Engineer
ArcGIS Mapping System Team

Excellent. Thanks Craig.

nicogis

here you can see sds video: http://video.arcgis.com/watch/483/sharing-data-as-a-feature-service-using-the-spatial-data-server-with-arcgis-10.1

DougGreen

I just loaded some data into a fresh install of SQL Server Express and did not have SDE. Then I used PgMap (http://www.st-links.com/Pages/default.aspx) to connect to the database and edit data. Can only use 100 features at a time until you get a registration key. It is open source for those who are not enterprise. Enjoy.

SFGISProgram

here you can see sds video: http://video.arcgis.com/watch/483/sharing-data-as-a-feature-service-using-the-spatial-data-server-with-arcgis-10.1

Broken Link. I am very interested in the contents. May I see the video or information regarding the topic, please?

DerekLaw

Broken Link. I am very interested in the contents. May I see the video or information regarding the topic, please?

I am interested in this video as well. Can you please provide working link. Thanks.

FYI, some videos on Spatial Data Server technology:

Publishing Feature Services from Desktop to the Spatial Data Server
Installing the ArcGIS 10.1 Spatial Data Server for the Java component of ArcGIS 10.1 for Server

Hope this helps,

J_Chen

I just did some tests on spatial data server 10.1 for IIS.

In my 64-bit workstation Dell OPTIPLEX 790, there are Windows 7 Professional 64-bit, ArcGIS Desktop 10.1, ArcGIS 10.1 spatial data server for IIS (EDN), and SQL Server 2008 R2 (Developer). A named instance of SQL Server 2008 R2 was created during installation. A SQL Server database (non-SDE) was created to hold feature classes (that is feature tables in the OpenGIS Implementation Standard for Geographic information - Simple feature access - Part2: SQL option). Those feature classes will be published as feature services to the spatial data server that will host those feature services.

After feature services were published to and hosted in the spatial data server, I used the ArcMap 10.1 (as a client) to edit features. Here is the instruction http://resources.arcgis.com/en/help/main/10.1/index.html#/Editing_a_feature_service_in_ArcMap/01sq0000002q000000/ .

Basically, to use ArcGIS Desktop 10.1 to edit spatial data (that is feature class) in a non-SDE database, a local file geodatabase will be used as intermediary to hold your editing work and then synchronize your edits back to the non-SDE database. However, I cannot use ArcGIS Desktop 10.1 to directly edit feature class in the non-SDE database (without using feature services and file geodatabase). But, I can open, select, and query tables of feature class in a non-SDE geodatabase, very much like attribute talbes of feature classes or SDE tables in a SDE geodatabase.

Maybe, the day when we can use ArcGIS Desktop 10.1 to directly edit feature classes in a non-SDE database, that day will be the end day for ArcSDE. Right, ESRI staff?

TimLangner

Maybe, the day when we can use ArcGIS Desktop 10.1 to directly edit feature classes in a non-SDE database, that day will be the end day for ArcSDE. Right, ESRI staff?

I'm not sure if ESRI want to get rid of ArcSDE. I do prefer the fact that MapInfo can directly write back to Oracle spatial data tables. However that is not to say that everything else about MapInfo is better than ArcGIS.

I only used MapInfo for digitising in the past but people I speak to locally say they prefer ArcGIS on the whole. Just ashame though that one can't write directly back to Oracle. I only want to do that so I can write more advanced and at times easier SQL queries on my data and even commit those changes outside of ArcMap, since the ArcMap Jet SQL is rather basic in comparison.

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