I am NOT a Surveyor

Question

A couple days ago, a ruling was made by the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in North Carolina that seems to endanger the field of GIS Professionals.

This article from abc11 news was forwarded through my state's GIS Email chain, as a topic/situation we'll have to confront eventually: NC drone pilot can't offer mapping without surveyor's license, court says

I found the published Opinion of the court, and am attaching it to this post ("No 23-1472 Opinion May 20, 2024 .pdf").

The Opinion seems to indicate that any work utilizing remotely-sensed data and any derivative measurements falls within the purview of licensed surveyors -at least in North Carolina.

I'm not a lawyer.  Nor am I a Surveyor.  But I do consider myself to be a professional Geospatial Analyst!

I thought it might be a good idea to let everyone here know about this issue.

Also, ESRI sales in NC might suddenly drop.

Wayback Link to abc11 news article: https://web.archive.org/web/20240000000000*/https://abc11.com/post/michael-jones-nc-drone-pilot-offer-mapping-surveyors/14851527/

[Edit: Posted by D. Murray]

No 23-1472 Opinion May 20, 2024 .pdf

derrick.westoby_apexmapping · Answer

I work in the survey department and this topic comes up quite a bit.  We have a standard disclaimer we include on any maps I make or assist with if a surveyor was not involved, such as creating site plans that include NAIP imagery, taxlots sourced from county GIS and contours from various sources.  It basically says that this map was not produced under the supervision of a licensed land surveyor, that no ground truthing or field data collection was performed, that it includes publicly available datasets with no assumptions provided related to accuracy or completeness, and that it's provided as a contexual approximation only.

I wasn't involved in the conversation, but two surveyors in my office sent it to the surveyor's board (for OR and WA) back in 2017 and they were content with it.

DanaNolan · Answer

I remember discussing this issue in a GIS class about 2005, but rarely since then. I also worked at a state Dept. of Transportation as an intern; many of the experience GIS analysts did have surveying licenses and backgrounds.

ODWC_GIS · Answer

Good News for Oklahoman GIS Folks!

The current State Geographic Information Coordinator for Oklahoma just sent a reply to the worrywarts (read: me) in the OK GIS Email Chain:

The Council and the Oklahoma State Board for Licensure of Professional Engineers and Land Surveyors addressed this issue nearly 20 years ago. The distinction between land surveying and GIS mapping was discussed back in the summer of 2005 between the Council and the OK Board of Professional Engineers and Land Surveyors after the passage of HB1607.  HB1607 modified the language in 59 O.S. 2001, Section 475.2:7. a.  Section 475.2:7. a which reads in part:“Practice of land surveying” means any service or work, the adequate performance of which involves the application of special knowledge of the principles of mathematics, methods of measurement, and the law for the determination and preservation of land boundaries. “Practice of land surveying” includes, without limitation: … (6) preparation of the controlportions of geographic information systems and land information systems, …. The key word in distinguishing between land surveying and GIS mapping was the meaning of the word “control” .  This topic was an agenda item in the rare July 8, 2005 Council meeting following a presentation titled “Title 59-Will if affect GIS” by Burk Cornelius who was and is the Executive Director of the Oklahoma Society of Land Surveyors. After Mr. Cornelius’ presentation a discussion on the topic of land surveying and GIS was had focusing on defining the meaning of the term “control” as it applies to 59 O.S. Section 475.2:7. A (6).  Here is the section from the official minutes of the July 8, 2005 Council meeting summarizing that discussion:6. Discussion and possible action concerning the definition of surveying which is the subject of the July 22 public hearing of The State Board of Registration for Professional Engineers andLand Surveyors.Mike Sharp informed the Council members of an upcoming public hearing concerning the definition of surveying as it applies to GIS. Mike Sharp presented a definition of control that was develop by the recently formed workgroup for consideration by the council. The definition of control for consideration is as follows: “Control” as used in 59 O.S. Section 475.2:7.a (6) is defined as a system of marks or objects that have established horizontal or vertical positions verified by a ground survey. Discussion was held among the members of the group concerning this definition and how it would be presented to the State Board of Registration for Professional Engineers and Land Surveyors. Wade Patterson made a motion that the Council adopt the workgroups recommendation for the definition of control with the following additions: an authoritative and monumented ground survey. Jay Adams seconded the motion. The motion passed unanimously. Mike Sharp encouraged everyone to attend the meeting at 9:00 a.m. on July 22. In the official rules of the Oklahoma State Board of Licensure for Professional Engineers and Land Surveyors, Title 245, Chapter 15, Subchapter 13, Minimum Standards for the Practice of Land Surveying we see under minimum standards: 24:15-13-2.(e).(11)Preparation of the control portion of a geographic information systems and land information systems means the authoritative and monumented ground survey of a system of marks or objects to establish horizontal or vertical positions. In my opinion, I think in your GIS applications and mapping if you are not indicating that you establish any kind of authoritative and monumented control objects or marks then you are not considered to be conducting land surveying.  This should go a long way in heading off anything that appears to be happening in North Carolina should it come to Oklahoma.

So, that seems to have laid that concern to rest.  For me, at least. I don't know what kind of damage the original lawsuit/ruling will have on GIS Folks in North Carolina, but I can hope that there's room/time for a similar understanding.