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ArcScene 10.1 near non-functional with TIN (face elevation)

MikeFutrell

ArcScene: I upgraded 10 to 10.1 and now TINs are virtually non-functional when symbolizing by face elevation. TINS of even just a few faces, created in 9.x, 10, or 10.1, give that all familiar "Not Responding" for minutes then does not display correctly. Forget about turning the model. Symbolizing by wireframe, aspect, or slope seems to work ok (but elevation is 99% of use). In 10.0 even my large TINs worked fine. So now I have a lot of broken non-functional work. Even simple v10.0 SXD files won't even open!! [no other hardware/software changes were made]

Anyone else experiencing this? Do I need to roll back to 10.0?
Thank you,
Mike

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als21

We need to stay on 10.1 sp1 - what was the final solution?

ChristophTraun

Two of our students are considering to upgrade to 10.2 because of this issue, since TIN Rendering in ArcScene 10.1 does not work with their ATI graphics cards (ATI Mobility 3650 HD (256MB)). Can anyone verify if this issue is really solved in 10.2 ?

Kind regards,
Christoph

WilliamWhite

Our records indicate this was fixed in 10.1.2 SP2

I am having this same issue. I downloaded the 10.1 software in January (student license). I'm guessing I need to download the 10.1.2 SP2 for this to work? Where/how do I access this? Thanks!

ClaytonCrawford

Our records indicate this was fixed in 10.1.2 SP2

JonZambrano

Is there a fix other than upgrading to 10.2?! For such advanced and expensive software, I truly expected 10.1 to be an improvement from 10.0, however there are more bugs and crashes that I had with 9.3 or 10.0. Will ESRI continue ignoring the issues with ArcScene10.1 or will there ever be a fix? These issues are costing me $Hundreds$ everyday!

georgerosenbaum

ArcScene crashes for me when I try to load a TIN - where's the fix?

GIS-Cambria

Still having ArcScene problems with rasters and display. 2 different machines:
Dell T5500 6GB memory with NVIDIA Quadro FX4800
Driver: 9.18.13.1106
Dell M6500 8GB memory with NVIDIA Quadro FX3800M
Driver: 8.16.11.8843

Both of these machines should laugh at 3D like it's the easiest thing to handle. ArcScene....what gives? Rendering elevation DEMs should be easily handled on either of these machines, but neither are very successful...

iamidaho you aren't the only one!

UPDATE: It seems that most of my frustration is coming from pulling a DEM out of SDE (SQL Server). If I run ArcScene using a file geodatabase with DEMs in it ArcScene is responding well....at least for a pilot area. Will update again when trying full county area (700 sq mi).

DawnLasprugato1

Is there any chance I can get a patch for NIM085208 that works in 10.1? I cannot upgrade to ArcGIS 10.2 until the US Army Corps of Engineers Hydrologic Engineering Center updates their applications to be 10.2 compatible (at least the ones I use)...
That could be a year from now.
Thanks.
-Dawn Lasprugato

GIS-Cambria

Still having ArcScene problems with rasters and display. 2 different machines:
Dell T5500 6GB memory with NVIDIA Quadro FX4800
Driver: 9.18.13.1106
Dell M6500 8GB memory with NVIDIA Quadro FX3800M
Driver: 8.16.11.8843

Both of these machines should laugh at 3D like it's the easiest thing to handle. ArcScene....what gives? Rendering elevation DEMs should be easily handled on either of these machines, but neither are very successful...

iamidaho you aren't the only one!

NathanHobbs

Came here looking for a fix to the same issue

Dell M6500 I7 940 Xm Quadro 3800M

Using a very simplified Tin of a 3 square mile area, tried converting Tin to Raster same issue, can not float any layer over elevation data.

Arc scene at present is unusable to me in this state. Has anyone found workarounds hoping to not have to wait until 10.2 is both announced and deployed at my work.

NathanHobbs

RickCarter1

I am having same problem and I am using AMD FirePro V4900 (FireGL v)

Trying to do ESRI pdf --

Introducing ArcGIS 3D Analyst: Mount St. Helens - Before and After

sthelens3d_ArcGIS.pdf

JeffreySwain

The fix is in for the next update 10.2 per the published bug information.

TimBarnes

Lame!! Is there a solution to this problem yet? ArcScene crashes 100% of the time when I try to add a TIN...

as opposed to ~ %80 of the time when using ArcGlobe/ArcScene with any 'real world' data?

brandonolson

Lame!! Is there a solution to this problem yet? ArcScene crashes 100% of the time when I try to add a TIN...

TullyWilson

I'm having the same issue. My video card is an ATI Radeon HD 2400XT. My work around was to create a layer file with the TIN and change the symbology from an elevation face to some other face display since just the elevation face was causing the problem. Since I don't really need to see the elevation face, this works fine.

PavanYadav

Greetings,
I work with the Esri User Advocacy Group, and I wanted to inform you that as soon as the TIN display problem (NIM085208) was brought to our attention, we started working toward its fix. We have a fix now which has been incorporated into the code. I am fairly confident that this fix will be incorporated into the upcoming release 10.1.2, which is planned to be available in March.

Eric this is a serious problem. I cant even get the tutorial files to work in 10.1. These are files that I installed from the installation set, so they should work perfectly. Its not a size of the file issue. Arcscene hangs no matter what I do and I have my virtual memory set at the highest possible to give it plenty of room to work. Please tell me we arent going to have to wait months for this to work, my project is time sensitive as are others. I am having the same problem rendering, loading files, and even trying to shut it down. It takes over my machine and its a new machine!

@Jenny, are you experiencing the problem described in NIM085208? Please note that NIM085208 is specific to ATI Graphic Cards and TINs.

Regards,
Pavan

Pavan Yadav | Raster/3D Development Technical Lead
User Advocacy Group | Support Services

LenDesson

I too have noticed at 10.1 ArcScene is having problems with TINs that used to display fine.
Some will take a long time to load, other times just trying to change the symbology of the TIN will crash ArcScene.

JennyAxelrod1

Eric this is a serious problem. I cant even get the tutorial files to work in 10.1. These are files that I installed from the installation set, so they should work perfectly. Its not a size of the file issue. Arcscene hangs no matter what I do and I have my virtual memory set at the highest possible to give it plenty of room to work. Please tell me we arent going to have to wait months for this to work, my project is time sensitive as are others. I am having the same problem rendering, loading files, and even trying to shut it down. It takes over my machine and its a new machine!

EricRice

Hi Steve,

The product documentation cautions against using large rasters with ArcScene in the link you provided. It's subtle, but there.

"ArcScene is geared for those with smaller spatial datasets who want to examine a defined study area."

"Since ArcGlobe is designed to be used with very large datasets....."

"ArcScene loads all data into available memory and uses paging files if necessary. This is one of the reasons why ArcScene is optimized for smaller study areas with less amounts of data."

For 1 meter data at 700 sq miles of extent you should use ArcGlobe probably. ArcScene has been an in-memory application since I started here at 9.0 and was probably that way since its inception. The issue is not so much related to the application loading things into memory as much as it's related to the application being 32 bit and subject to real limits on the amount of memory it can allocate. 64 bit applications will change this and improve performance (with large data) because more RAM can be snatched up. The application loading items into memory should not be confused with "in-memory analysis" which I would equate to using geoprocessing tools using an in-memory workspace. They are totally separate. Note, in-memory workspaces did not support raster data until 10.1.

In terms of LAS Dataset performance I have worked with hundreds of millions of data points in ArcScene using the new LAS Dataset and the performance is what is expected in most cases. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that your source .las files are not local to your machine and neither is the LAS Dataset. If true, try creating another LAS Dataset with local .las files; I bet you'll see a big improvement. You should check out these help topics.

LAS dataset considerations - particularly the section on "Dimensions and size of LAS files".
"For best performance, the client machine should have direct access to data on local internal drive, not across network or slower external drives."
LAS dataset scalability
An overview of displaying LAS datasets in ArcGIS

Also, if you're just looking for a raster to be created from your source .las files, have you considered a Mosaic Dataset? It supports .las files as direct inputs (just like rasters) and will rasterize the points on the fly using user defined filters such as Class Code and Return type. The two week result you got (presumably over your network) could have been obtained in less than an hour using the mosaic dataset with your .las files. Additional time would be required to build overviews, but still faster than two weeks. See the LAS to Raster function which the Mosaic Dataset uses to produce the raster on the fly.

Best,
Eric

GIS-Cambria

@erictrice commented that converting a TIN to raster for use in ArcScene might work. I have an ATI card so that may be part of the issue. However, I will caution against working with large elevation rasters in ArcScene. My experience is that ArcScene will attempt to render a raster dataset and then hang up at about 34-37%. My data is coming from SQL/SDE with 1 meter pixels (3.2ft) covering about 700 square miles. For what it's worth I have found that both rendering large sized raster elevation files and rendering large volumes of LAS data as an LAS dataset simply choke ArcScene.

It seems to me that raster elevation display was an issue with AGIS10 and still a problem with 10.1. My suspicion is that about this time (AGIS 10) a decision was made whereby ArcScene became an in-memory application and thus introduced a problem with big files. Read the section about ArcScene in this link. http://resources.arcgis.com/en/help/main/10.1/index.html#//00q8000000sv000000
While working with in-memory analysis is great in theory, working with county wide analysis is stymied here. This is especially troublesome when attempting to use a surface elevation raster in the display or as input for either creating subsurface features or more detailed DTM information like buildings and tree canopy. It also seems to affect other geoprocessing tasks too. I've tried to run LAS to raster tools which processed for nearly 2 weeks before getting a result. I'm half afraid to attempt much more.

Please Esri, take the processing of ArcScene out of being a primarily memory based application and give it access to the horsepower that it once had. Perhaps a marriage of ArcScene and ArcGlobe into one product is to be considered too. But for now at least help us to work with what we�??ve got�?�

PiotrMaciag

Hello

Problem with TIN on ATI graphics card is not only in ArcScene. It's also in ArcCatalog on Preview -> 3D View. TINs works only in 2d.

ArcGIS 10.1

ATI Radeon Mobility HD 5470
AMD Athlon II P320

Regards
Peter

TiborLieskovský

Hi I can report same problem (nVidia works, ATI no). For us it is little bit problematic, because we are teaching at university and few of our "excersise" are focused to TIN and ArcScene, now we are not able to works with students. Please do you have some solution, or workaround. Thanks in advance

EricRice

Yes I also still have the same issue even though I was told it would be solved in SP1. Come on ESRI!!

Hi Mark,

I had a look at the NIM and I don't see your name connnected to it in any manner. Did you have an incident with Esri Support that was supposed to be linked to this NIM? I'm curious who told you it would be solved in SP1. That wasn't even remotely possible. The NIM was submitted to Dev on 9/26/12, roughly 4 weeks before SP1 shipped to the public. SP1 was basically done before the NIM was submitted. It was being tested, certified, and a whole slew of other processes involved in getting it out the door. We don't just finish writing code, install it, then ship it to you guys without it being tested thoroughly. There can be two months from the time we finish a service pack, till the time you can download it.

I'm not on the team responsible for this NIM, but I know they are aware of the problem. In addition, the User Advocacy Group has flagged this NIM as High Priority (only a couple days after it was submitted) and they are requesting a fix at the next available SP (SP2). We know this NIM is impacting certain ATI card users, and that it needs a speedy resolution. We thank you for your patience.

Temporarily, you could convert your TIN to a raster and use the raster in ArcScene. I know it doesn't look the same, but typically you would be draping imagery/features on the surface anyway and not actually visualizing the TIN. Technically, you don't need any elevation layer in the scene; you can still set other layers to use the TIN/raster for baseheights.

Best Regards,
Eric

GeospatialTechnology

I've had a look through the issues addressed with SP1 and it looks like this issue isnt one of them

http://downloads.esri.com/support/downloads/other_/ArcGIS101sp1-issues.htm

GeospatialTechnology

Yes I also still have the same issue even though I was told it would be solved in SP1. Come on ESRI!!

jornkri

Hi,
I hoped that this problem would be fixed when I installed the new service pack, but the problem is still there. Anybody have any solution? Or anyone know anything more about when this will be fixed?

-Regards Jorn

GeospatialTechnology

Following on from this has anyone been having any troubles with arcmap in 10.1

It's taking unusually long time to save workspaces that would have saved straight away in 10

RobertoRossi

Using the driver to 8.670.0.0 (ATI Radeon HD 4650), witch seem older, instead than catalyst 12.1, it works!

RobertoRossi

I have the same problem in ArcMAP, symbolizing a LAS dataset with TIN faces by elevation and viewing it with LAS Dataset 3D View: I have to wait a lot for rendering, and finally it doesn't work: I only see a static view with faded colour.

I have no problem symbolizing by slope or aspect.
No problem either viewing the elevation in a notebook (with integrated Intel graphic card).

The machine that has the problem has an ATI Radeon HD 4600 Series, with catalyst 12.1

Roberto Rossi

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