In ArcMap, you can Load Sketch into the COGO Traverse tool and modify the survey calls(Metes and Bounds) of a polygon. It seems there is not an exact way to do that in ArcGIS Pro.
Every documentation keeps pointing to COGO enable this or that or Parcel Fabric. This isn't ideal, I would like to see development team to build that feature into ArcGIS Pro Modify Tool suite.
https://pro.arcgis.com/en/pro-app/latest/help/editing/create-a-traverse.htm
https://www.reddit.com/r/ArcGIS/comments/mblcfz/question_about_arcgis_pro_cogo_traverses/
@DucksInaRiver
Migrating to the parcel fabric is easy, but to make it even easier you I have zipped the map package with the georeferenced plat. I'll find how to upload it later today
@AmirBar-Maor This is extremely helpful to see, thank you!
The missing course between L14 and L16 is L15 from the table. I am sorry that the label on that was invisible on what I scanned. Your instinct to pursue Parcel A was correct. That is the one I am working with. Composite plats are famously terrible regarding accuracy for the +/- distances that negatively impact closures. I do account for that when finalizing these types of boundaries, and how much faith we put into the accuracy. I'd consider this a step up from a tax map polygon at best. Nevertheless, it's helpful to have a better reference than nothing at all. I have seen typos and mis-keys like you are guessing on for the 470 versus 870. I may be able to find the plat for the shared line to see if that's the case here.
I'm going to replicate what you did and see if I have the same success. I am embarrassed to ask at this point, but how exactly do I launch Parcel Fabric in Pro? I see a few options from the Search bar including a geoprocessing option 'Parcel Fabric' (Create a parcel fabric and it's associated features...), a tool option 'Create Parcel Fabric', and another tool option 'Build Parcel Fabric'.
Thank you so much!
I had time yesterday to look into it. Apologies for the wait time.
This is a challenging plat:
For example:
There is a missing course in this location
But I assume you are used to that reality in VA.
When you use parcel fabric lines to enter the data, you can switch to digitizing mode which allows you to enter natural boundaries by digitizing them. You can even prepare different boundary line types to distinguish between natural boundaries, road frontage, side lots lines etc.
I decided to start with Parcel A with the point marked as '1', encountered a missing course marked as point '2', and never reached the water with the course of 470' (+/-) marked as '3'.
Maybe the course going to the river should have been 870' instead of 470'?
You can see in the screenshot about that when you use lines to enter the traverse:
When you use the parcel fabric you have additional benefits in the context of entering this plat:
I hope this helps
Amir
@AmirBar-Maor That's a very generous offer, I appreciate that.I converted the (composite) plat to jpg. I can provide you with a PDF directly if needed.
Survey metes and bounds are in State Plane Virginia Coordinate System of 1983, South Zone, and so the polygon has the same projection.
We use a state-level imagery service for the basemap found here: https://vgin.vdem.virginia.gov/maps/36386a7e7dae4032a33cb0b83a1711f1/about
Spatial reference of this imagery basemap is WGS 1984 Web Mercator (Auxiliary Sphere).
I have been setting my ground to grid correction to a distance factor of 0.30480061 for feet, but I am not familiar with how to include combined scale factor and accounting for elevation.
In my work I will not have neighboring parcels from plats in the majority of situations. These are standalone properties, and we'd like to have the best idea of where the boundary is when viewing on aerial imagery or physically standing on the property. The goal is to have something that's better than a digital tax map boundary.
If you can share your plat we can record a video showing how to enter it.
Please also supply the spatial reference and the combined scale factor.
We will also show how easy it is to create a new parcel fabric and migrate to it (it takes less time than entering a plat)
@DarylHochhalter Thank you for weighing in with a suggestion. I could not get the unclosed and half-finished polygon to remain on the screen long enough to trace it. For this property specifically, I noticed that the distance of the line was significantly shorter as reported on the Plat than reality, even accounting for the curve of the earth. Granted, it was also a +/- distance and easily significantly off regardless. It's bothersome that the confidence in accuracy is reduced quite a bit by this method, although to your point, we just accept more of a margin of error than we already are to begin with.
@AmirBar-Maor
Step 1 - Are these steps specific to a workflow for Parcel Fabric because I am not clear on what you mean by 'creating an active record'. I create feature layers or feature classes depending on the property project I'm working on. Usually, it's a simply objective to digitize a boundary from a plat, nothing more. I have no experience using Parcel Fabric, in case that's the context of your help.Step 2 - yes, I do set the Ground to Grid correction
Step 3 - I could not figure out how to switch between the COGO mode and tracing the natural feature. Can you include some screen shots on which things to toggle in the menu in order to do that?
Step 4 - What is Parcel Seed and Build?? Is this another reference to Parcel Fabric?
Which Parcel Fabric tutorial videos specifically show how to enter plats/metes and bounds that may not have the best misclosures, and how to deal with that? The tricky situations are what I need the most help on.
The workflow to create a traverse that includes calls to natural boundaries (bounds) as well as 'metes' is supported and well documented.
The general outline of the workflow would be:
At any point you can press the toggle "Show Only Active Record" to only see the feature you are entering.
I hope this help
There are many videos online and on the parcel fabric community videos that show that.
@DucksInaRiver You could try creating line features for the traverse manually fixing the misclose issue then tracing to a polygon FC. I've just accepted some degree of error and try to keep it internal to particular parcels so that adjoining property lines are the same.
@AmirBar-Maor I finally found this community thread after hours of frustration and confusion in ArcPro due to my ignorance that the traverse process had changed so dramatically since my ArcMap days. I have entered hundreds of plats and metes/bounds in ArcMap and know the process like the back of my hand, and although I agree with the other Pro users in this thread on the various challenges this new workflow has precipitated, I am willing to explore the ways I can replicate the parcel boundary digitization process with whatever new processes ESRI is trying to suggest.
I need to know exactly what training resources are available for Parcel Fabric that can quickly and directly train me on how to enter my Plat/Metes and Bounds and 'Finish' it as a polygon? I want a polygon that represents the closest thing to the on-the-ground boundary like we used to generate in ArcMap. I strongly desire the most similar scenario; I have a plat, I need to entre it and create a polygon, I do not need to average out any distances or directions, and I do not need for it to snap to a neighboring boundary either. The issue I am running into at the moment is I'm working off of a compiled plat that uses a boundary line run along a mean water line, and quite a few +/- distances. As such, this traverse is not going to close, nor do I expect it to close. The misclosure contributing to the issue I am running into whereas I cannot 'Finish' the sketch and further edit my polygon because it just disappears when I hit the Finish button. I've already tried to increase my closure tolerance, but that did not work. If I try to 'Adjust' for the misclosure then the averaged-out distances and directions render the parcel boundary unusable for my work purposes. I have saved my traverse calls and can load them over and over again on a selected, empty feature layer. I cannot seem to create an editable and permanent polygon. Digitizing land records is absolutely essential to my current work. Tracing any thing that's rendered from the traverse tool is not the best solution, but even if I wanted to try that (which I did before I found this thread), I can't trace anything since the polygon keeps disappearing. Thanks for your help!
@JasonFuller would you be willing to meet with us to further discuss?If yes - please send a direct message.
Thank you for responding.
I understand those 3 considerations. I just feel that perhaps some of those gains could have been realized without losing some of the features, like loading traverse from sketch which is mainly what this thread is about. I think in some instances ESRI has updated the functionality of the Pro tool from when it was first introduced based to be better based on user responses (like exporting traverses which was not there initially) so hopefully this is something that continues to evolve.
I am glad that ESRI is looking into an OCR to Traverse tool, there was a custom add-on one for Arcmap floating around many years ago that was pretty useful before it fell behind version updates. However I have not seen too many OCR programs that do not occasionally misinterpret older deeds so those traverses will often have to be checked and updated which always seemed easier as a sketch but I will happily look forward to whatever you guys come up with. Unless its just for people who use Parcel Fabric which would be disappointing.
I will add though that Migrating to Parcel Fabric may be easier now from a data perspective than the Arcmap version but there are certainly some business process and retraining considerations that I would argue are not "easy" for small staffs on tight budgets/timelines to simply just do but that is a different issue altogether. Thanks again for your feedback and quick response.
I'm thinking the issue here is that the parcel fabric and associated tools could eventually become an addon license. ESRI doesn't see benefit including the functionality we're all suggesting here. We are simply looking for a way to edit the length and direction of existing line features, which is what the load from sketch offered in ArcMap. Although OCR for deeds might be useful in some cases, it won't eliminate the need for this functionality.
I think to most of us it's really a totally separate issue from the parcel fabric. I use COGO entries for features that wouldn't ever be included in a fabric, with descriptions that come from all kinds of documentation. I'm just sorry it's a low priority. I started using Pro for as many things as possible 5 years ago. It is a much improved application overall, but the attitude toward many suggestions seems to be that we should adapt to how you think we should do the tasks we have. I can remember talking to developers from ESRI several years ago regarding replicas and getting the same kind of response, why use them at all, do it this way. At one point, Pro had the ability to create replicas in a different coordinate system then the parent data, but didn't have that environment setting for the sync tool, ha!
My point is that it is complicated software used by lots of different people for lots of different tasks. User feedback has been integral to ESRI software development and widespread adoption of the many changes over the years, almost 30 for me.
@JasonFuller
We appreciate your candid and direct feedback.
When we developed the traverse tool in ArcGIS Pro we had to choose between 2 ArcMap traverse tools as well as the ArcInfo way.From your perspective, it seems like we chose the wrong one. We understand that the ArcMap COGO Traverse tool is more explicit and relies on fewer key shortcuts, but it also suffers from:
We have plans to develop something more explicit for those who want more explicit UI and a sketch, but that is not high on the priority list.
If you see performance issues for creating issues, we recommend that you look into them regardless of the traverse tool.
Migrating to the parcel fabric is actually easy. Where do you see the challenges?
How can we make traverse data entry easier? it's not by trying to improve your data entry speed but by eliminating the need to enter them. In the 'near term' we will release 'COGO Reader'. A tool that uses OCR and extracts all the courses from your deed.
It will be part of the parcel fabric functionality and will focus on US deeds containing 'metes' descriptions.
So many of the replies here from ESRI are not really addressing the concerns the OP, and many others, have. I have not personally met a single GIS professional who works extensively with large metes and bounds legal descriptions and creates traverses who prefers the ArcPro version of the Traverse tool. Its not a resistance to change and not liking something because it is new. It is simply not as good.
There were a lot of things about the Arcmap tool that were better, faster (Pro version is sooo slow for large traverses), and also not now available in the ArcPro Traverse tool. One specific thing which the OP asked about and others have reiterated more recently is the inability to simply load a traverse from a sketch. Instead of saying yes we understand this was a really useful feature that has no downside and we should work to add it to Pro instead I always see comments from ESRI about using the Trace feature (not helpful) or change to Parcel Fabric (a major undertaking as a work around for what seemed a very simple functionality in Arcmap). It is clear ESRI wants to push everyone to the parcel fabric but not everyone has the resources, time, or desire to change to Parcel Fabric right now.
Also why is it that in ArcPro when you create a traverse with Line features it does not create them as a sketch (it did in Arcmap) but it does create as a sketch when you create a Traverse on a Polygon? Just another functionality of the Arcmap Traverse tool that changed in Pro and does not seem to add any benefit.
If ESRI created a traverse tool that was similar to the Arcmap version and gave people a choice in Pro I really doubt many people would choose the existing ArcPro version. There are some nice improvements with parts of the pro traverse tool but I think putting some effort in adding some of these functionalities that existed in the Arcmap Version (like loading a traverse from sketch) would be welcomed by the GIS community who have to use these tools frequently on a daily basis.
Hi @AmirBar-Maor , thanks for your reply. I have also watched your videos from the Esri UC, very interesting.
We dont stitch new parcels to existing. We enter new parcels from the latest information and decide to readjust the neighbouring parcels based on the observed error and their known accuracies.
At this point we do not want to use the parcel fabric. We are just looking for an equivalent tool to load the sketch into the cogo editor.
@MattSund
The reason organizations adopt the parcel fabric is because they want:
We would love to help you. You can get in touch with our product manager @DanielStone or with your account manager.
The workflow you describe is a core workflow of starting connection lines from the commencement point to the point of beginning (POB). That accounts for any rotation (aka Basis of bearing) and scale factor. We call that 'ground to grid' correction and this is how to use it.
You can also apply rotation interactivity to a group of lines or a parcel after building it. From your description, I can tell that you close your traverse, which means you are already stretching the geometry to distribute the misclose (using the compass method most likely).Assuming you stitch new parcels to existing parcels (alignment) you effectively stretch and bend geometries. That is not different from what the parcel fabric does.
We understand that changing from ArcMap to Pro requires adjusting your workflows and it can be challenging.
You can prevent parcel points from moving by simply setting them to fixed. You can easily detect any line that has been stretched or rotated more than you want to allow it.
Your workflow explains why you are currently missing COGO dimensions on your lines which is a shame, because it sounds like you put a lot of effort of creating a nearly survey accurate cadastre, and good COGO values would allow you to run weighted LSA (Least Squares Adjustment) should you decide to evaluate and/or improve your spatial accuracy even further.
Hi @AmirBar-Maor
The most important part of checking the linework is before a polygon is created. You need to do a closed traverse of connections between survey marks and a closed traverse of the parcel.
Some of our survey plans are in a different azimuth and coordinate system, so with ArcMap we can traverse them into a sketch as they appear, adjust for missclose, and then rotate the sketch to account for azimuth.
Next we traverse the survey mark to parcel and ensure the traverse around the parcel closes correctly. When it does not, in ArcMap we can load the sketch into the Cogo tool and correct a mistake with a bearing or distance. (With ArcPro we cannot, because the trace tool runs over the underlying vertex of the original parcel or along the boundary of the neighbouring parcel.)
After this closes we construct the polygon from the correct lines. We do not want to construct a polygon before the lines are correct.
We are not using the fabric, as we have manually drawn a near survey accurate cadastre from one that was 5m wrong. We want to preserve straight lines and do not want stretching applied to our parcels like a fabric might permit.
We do not currently have cogo attributes on the lines
Thank you
Thanks @MattSund
Are you currently using the parcel fabric?
Are you using COGO Enabled lines in ArcGIS Pro?
If you use the parcel fabric you can select the parcel polygon and then use the parcel select tool to select the boundary lines.
We can also consider improving the 'select by trace' and/or offer another selection method. Would that work?
@AmirBar-Maor we also use the Load traverse from sketch tool.It is a simple use case - not really a custom workflow.
You traverse a series of survey lines from reference mark to parcel. Sometimes you make an error and you need to edit the data.In ArcMap this is entirely possible. Select the sketch, open cogo and load traverse from sketch.Using the trace tool in ArcPro is impractical as there are many overlapping and nearby lines which the trace tool inadvertently follows.
This issue is keeping our editors in ArcMap.
@melisahansen
We regard any solution that manages parcels outside the parcel fabric as a custom solution. We've made it easy to migrate any data into the parcel fabric and provide additional capabilities to make your parcel maintenance more efficient. Organizations that want to have their own custom solution can use the rich ArcGIS Pro SDK for their custom workflows.
Another capability we are currently working on to make you more efficient is the capability to OCR deeds and create features (with COGO values). Such capability will be limited to the parcel fabric.
@AmirBar-Maor our organization also uses the Load traverse from Sketch as it makes our workflows much faster. We are not actively using parcel fabric and do not have plans to just yet. As anonymous user stated, being able to bring in an existing parcel to the traverse tool, is much faster when editing existing parcels.
Currently in Pro, I would have to COGO the entire parcel from scratch, where previously I could just edit the traverses imported. ArcMap, was more flexible and efficient to our workflows. Are there plans to bring this option into Pro?
@DarylHochhalter
We are already getting requests to make parcel fabric tools available for non parcel fabric feature. Things like historic parcels and parcel lineage, parcel alignment, COGO type, Highlight Gaps and Overlaps and more + more parcel capabilities to come.
The parcel fabric in Pro uses simple feature classes, so your workflows would not change much, just get more efficient. That said, if you figured out which tools to use for your custom solutions, and it works for you, you can continue to use your custom solution.
We focus on the land records / cadastre industry and are committed to the success of our customers by providing them with the most advanced and efficient technology to do their job. We call it the "parcel fabric".
I would just like to add to these comments it would be really nice if you could add similar tools as what was available in Arcmap so that we can all use COGO entries whether implementing a parcel fabric or not. I have used them for years without a parcel fabric and would really like to continue doing so. Obviously, the pro people at ESRI have made the calculation there is some other way to do this by enabling your feature classes, I'm not sure why that is so important to you. Many of us would just like to use the feature without doing that. Also, the load from sketch option is something I've used for years for many different reasons and many different features, from utilities to various parcel layers. Rather then explaining why I want them, could you please explain why ESRI refuses to give the tools we had before?
Because these things are not available in Pro, I still use Arcmap for several editing workflows.
Thanks @Anonymous User for the information.
Are you aware that attempting to load a traverse from a polygon will:
1. Use the Grid (projection) dimensions and not the original ground dimensions?
2. Any misclose that was adjusted between all the traverse courses will be reflected in the inverse dimensions?
3. Any densified curves you might have in your data will appear as many small courses?
About the parcel fabric. If yo are the only one editing it you can also use a file Geodatbase (single user deployment) and not have to wait for other departments to upgrade the enterprise environment. Some additional benefits for you to consider:
1. If you enter a lot of old deeds you will be able to associate each parcel you enter and each boundary to the deeds it came from (regardless if it is now historic or current).
2. You will be able to isolate and see only the features that pertain to that deed/plat (using the Show Only Active Record)
3. Better quality control: easily find topological issues, lines with wrong COGO values, parcels with wrong area etc.
4. All the reasons above to use 'COGO enabled lines' + we also track if the COGO dimension was 'entered', inversed 'from geometry' or 'computed'.
5. Efficiency
6. ...
I been editing for in AGP for two plus years now. I kept with the updates so having the Traverse tool work both on polyline and now Polygon after 2.73 is wonderful.
The advantage of this Load Sketch and modify survey calls require less steps, flexible, and is straight forward.
In ArcMap the steps are:
1. Go into edit session
2. Select an existing feature
3. Right Click to edit vertices
4. Go to COGO window and right click on the empty area and load sketch
There it would populate the bearing and distance (Survey Calls). I attached a link of the image below and also modify the original post to now have an image attachment to show you the screenshot. There are many GIS analysts that will find this method useful, especially those who work in Real Property, Survey, and Land acquisition.
Why am I not using parcel fabric?
1. I plot a lot of old deeds and use it for research purpose to find ownership. It will not part of a fabric and using parcel fabric for this task is cumbersome.
2. I work for a local government and one reason is our server is on 10.6, Parcel Fabric on AGP 2.8 requires it to be 10.8 to work. We can't upgrade until certain department switches their utility network. My department is one of the few that is using AGP more than ArcMap.
Hello @Anonymous User ,
The traverse tool is part of the editing Modify tools and it allows you to traverse both polygons and lines.
The reason you are pointed in the documentation to enable the COGO on your lines feature class is that a COGO enabled feature class has the ability to capture the measurements as attributes as well as predefined symbology, labeling and display expression that works well for metes and bounds legal descriptions.
What are the advantages of entering features over a sketch?Every line you enter is its own feature which means can save your edits halfway through entering a traverse. It also means you can pick it up from where you have left simply by tracing those lines. Having labels can help you identify any entry mistakes early on - another reason to not use a sketch.
If you choose to not use the new parcel fabric, you can use those lines to create a polygon using the 'Construct Polygon' tool (also found in the editing modify tools).
Another option if you want to preserve using polygons: select the polgyon, Copy and paste special into a COGO enabled line feature class, Use the traverse trace to modify it, then Construct from polygon, delete the lines (as you can see - this is not efficient).
Any reason you are not using the new parcel fabric?
How long have you been editing in ArcGIS Pro?
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