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When I open the Item Details of the layer in the map, it results in an error, and it's pointing to ...Video_Coverage/MapServer/0 However, when opening the layer from the REST service, the actual ID number is 2 (...Video_Coverage/MapServer/2) I don't know what happened. An easy fix is to just remove the version on the map, and add it again - that works fine, but then some of the functionality in the app is lost (namely, when you start a video, it no longer zooms to the road). Here's another example of someone changing id's without knowing it and breaking an application
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02-29-2024
10:37 AM
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@BillFox This idea is to help fix the root issue and your issues are related to this but downstream. I think if esri can help solve this problem, the issues you highlight start to happen less and less.
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12-20-2023
03:43 PM
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Thank you for clarifying @TanuHoque. There does seem to be a lot of uncertainty around how the id's function. Let's try to not get distracted with how the id's are created and focus our conversation on how to improve the product to help guide people to make less mistakes that cause breaking changes with ArcGIS Online services.
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12-19-2023
03:17 PM
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@OliverAdam Thank you for outlining your process. My agency also has an automated, repeatable process that does not violate the contracts we create with our customers. That's where my and your responsibility ends. ArcGIS Online is a lot bigger than you and I. Your process is not relevant to this conversation since you cannot force your process on to others publishing to ArcGIS online. You cannot make every publisher read your suggestion and perform those tasks. The common denominator is that we are all publishing with ArcGIS Pro content. That is the only place publishers can be informed to make the right decision. That is where this idea is aimed.
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12-19-2023
03:12 PM
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Thanks @JonahLay but I think you are missing the point. Publishers are ignoring that on the first publish or not, it doesn't really matter. If they followed that analyzer and assigned id's, if they don't use the same map/project to update the data, they fall into the same pit of despair without any notice. It doesn't matter when they first publish a service because there is no contract to follow, no link created on the web for people to consume. The issue appears when publishers *update* the data and inadvertently create new ids for layers. This is when the URLs change and the contract is broken. All references are 404. It is my experience that they don't know they did it or why it happened. @RandyCasey Thank you for describing the indexing algorithm in more depth. I agree 💯💯💯 esri should check the index in the service and notify the user to take action. Reindexing the project to fix any further issues is an interesting idea. This helps people do the right thing.
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12-18-2023
04:40 PM
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@TanuHoque I am a consumer in this instance. I understand you can assign layer id's but many publishers do not or are not. Why is that? What would prompt them to read that article when making updates? Maybe they aren't using the same map to make updates etc. So while I appreciate the link to the document, I'm not the one who needs to read it - the publishers are.
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12-18-2023
03:46 PM
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Layer id values in pro projects are assigned when a layer is added to a project. I don't understand the rules for how the values update when new layers are added, removed, and reordered in the project. But these id's cause issues for publishers who don't understand the importance that they stay consistent. When a service is published to arcgis online, the layer is accessed by it's layer id. Depending on how a publisher updates that data, the layer id can change. These change happen without the publisher knowing it caused a breaking change for consumers. As a consumer, it is akin to whack-a-mole trying to keep up with some publishers as the id seems to change on every publish. Some days, they create a new project, add the data, and overwrite the service creating a 0 index. Other days it seems they create a project with a bunch of data and publish creating a layer id of 4. They publish again and it's 6. It's very difficult to trust these publishers and ultimately that boils down to the platform and the tools coming up short. The best place to educate publishers that the id's will change is during the analyze step of publishing. I am aware that some customers do not enjoy the amount of information displayed there now which can lead to it being ignored. But where else could it be displayed? What other hook is available? Are there any optional analyze tools that can be triggered by the responsible people who are interested in this information? My idea is to create an analyzer that can spot id's changing and allow publishers to read about the subject and assign an id to a layer to avoid the breaking change. It could link to a thoughtful article explaining the nuances of changing id's and yada yada. If this doesn't fit into the required analyze step, then I propose creating an optional analyze step or a way to enable "advanced" analysis. I think you get the idea.
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12-18-2023
03:30 PM
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@jill_es I don't see any reason to restrict this idea to standalone server. It seem appropriate to manage the entire lifecycle of services from any place where services can be published. The message properties should be available from the REST endpoint. When viewing the endpoint as HTML, highlighting that message would be useful. All the esri clients consuming the service should have the ability to display the messages.
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05-03-2023
10:31 AM
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@jblairpdx I second this. ArcGIS Server using http verbs and status codes "correctly" would be a nice touch. @cdickerson I would want to keep this ask as simple as possible to see it get implemented quickly. It's not a huge ask of people to push the button on a schedule but it would be a nice feature. Having an admin endpoint to toggle the changes would be a nice trade off so we could schedule the job in chron or windows scheduler. @MichaelVolz thanks! 👏 @KathleenCSki Yes, that is the idea of the metadata. Provide all the information you can with links to posts/issues where they can read about the decision and workarounds etc. Your suggestion could certainly influence having more states. For instance, a marked for deprecation state, which could trigger a warning to users with a custom message. Something like, This service is marked for deprecation on such and such date. Follow this link for more information. That would be a much better user experience and more polite rather than hoping they see or read your deprecation communications before pulling the rug out from under them.
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04-20-2023
04:53 PM
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Services come and go. They serve their purpose or are replaced by a more authoritative source and are deleted. Clients of these services are not notified of this change. We try our best to reach our users but the best possible approach is through the software. Pro projects and web maps will continue to load with a broken service reference but the administrators/users can't tell the difference between a service outage and a thoughtful decision to remove a service. This is related to https://community.esri.com/t5/arcgis-online-ideas/use-deprecation-flag-through-platform/idi-p/941737 and will fill a missing gap in an often forgotten about life cycle management stage of services. I propose the creation of a new "shadow" service type or the addition of new service states (currently started and stopped) on existing services to express the intent of the final life cycle stage of a service - deletion. Once the state is set to deprecated, users would be allowed to enter some sort of rich text to explain the situation, link to related issues or articles to help the customer repair their service. This would be served out in the services metadata so the rest of the arcgis platform has the able to react to this data and display it in Pro, web maps, etc. ArcGIS Server logs would not fill up with clutter about services not being found when they were removed on purpose. It would be great to have analytics on how many clients are still trying to use the deprecated service.
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04-20-2023
01:33 PM
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@berniejconnors no we do not use a web adapter and instead we use a load balancer. How do you find and notify a public facing user of a service if all you have is an ip? I appreciate your concern for our communication problem. We have a public policy and public process for deprecating everything that we do. It's all visible on our website and on our tracking site. Thank you for you feedback although it was rather unhelpful. Changing the log level from SEVERE and WARNING for these 404's to an INFORMATION would be also be an improvement in my opinion.
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03-22-2022
02:15 PM
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ArcGIS Server logs two items when a request for a service does not exist; A java exception and a nicer log that X service was not found. While I understand it can be important to know when requests are being made for services that do not exist, it would be nice to remove some of these requests entirely as they produce a lot of noise. We delete services when they are no longer required by an application. We specifically tell people to not take them on as a dependency in their own applications, maps, and other systems. Yet, we find our logs piling up with messages that service x no longer exist; 1000's per week. It is almost impossible to find and notify these people to update their services based on the logs provided. We are able to block REST requests at our load balancer so they do not show up in our arcgis server logs but SOAP requests are more difficult to block. If there was an admin configuration endpoint area where we could maintain a list of services we know to be deleted and do not want to be warned about any longer, we could reduce the amount of noise in the logs to help find errors that are more important.
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03-21-2022
03:44 PM
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You are showing how to filter new content. I want to see a warning when I open my 1 year old pro project or web map that it is still referencing deprecated content.
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09-14-2020
04:54 PM
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1134
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You are showing how to filter new content. I want to see a warning when I open my 1 year old pro project or web map that it is still referencing deprecated content.
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09-14-2020
04:54 PM
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You are showing how to filter new content. I want to see a warning when I open my 1 year old pro project or web map that it is still referencing deprecated content.
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09-14-2020
04:54 PM
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7 | 12-18-2023 03:30 PM | |
28 | 04-20-2023 01:33 PM | |
1 | 03-21-2022 03:44 PM | |
1 | 02-02-2017 10:46 AM | |
1 | 07-31-2018 10:23 AM |
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