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ArcPad10 and Trimble 6000 series GeoXT

RichardReardon

I recently purchased a Trimble 6000series GeoXT handheld which runs
Windows Mobile 6.5 Professional. I have the Trimble GPS Controller
program installed on it, and when I run it there are plenty of
satellites available highlighted in black to show that they are
providing a signal (which is strong). The problem is when I run the
evaluation version of ArcPad10 I can't get any GPS signal. Clearly I
can get a strong signal, something just seems wrong when I move to
ArcPad. Here are my "GPS Preferences" in ArcPad10:

Protocol: NMEA 0183
Port: COM2:NMEA Serial port
Baud: 4800

These were the settings I was told to used in the setup manual provided by
Trimble for the handheld when using ArcPad (if not using GPScorrect). When
I try to let ArcPad search for a GPS signal, I recieve an error message
telling me that No GPS Signal was detected. I checked online and even when
using just the Evaluation Mode of ArcPad, I should still be able to use
the GPS function.

Note: I do not have both the GPS Controller program and ArcPad running simultaneously.

Any ideas/information on how I may resolve this connectivity problem are
greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,
Mike

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TimHopper

Mike,

Did you purchase the optional NMEA upgrade from Trimble? The 6000 series device doesn't output NMEA by default without the upgrade.

If you did purchase the upgrade, did you activate it? Activation for the NMEA upgrade is a little more challenging than the Floodlight technology, as you need to obtain an .xml file (which ties the NMEA upgrade to the specific serial number of your device) from Trimble which you then must point to on your device during the activation process.

If you did purchase the upgrade and it is activated, have you enabled NMEA output through the GPS Controller?

GPS Controller > Setup > GNSS Settings > NMEA Output > On

The new 6000 series device is a tricky one to get setup correctly. Reply here if you have any additional questions.

RichardReardon

Tim,
I have not purchased the NMEA upgrade because no where in any instructions for either the program or handheld mentioned it was necessary. I was under the impression that the Trimble device TSIP signal would work. While I was instructed to choose NMEA0183 as stated, I was never told that I must have the NMEA upgrade. Anyway, where can I obtain this upgrade?
I greatly appreciate your help!

-Mike

TimHopper

Mike,

I haven't received a good explanation as to why they didn't deliver the ability to utilize NMEA as they have in all of their previous mobile products. It was a surprise to me when the 6000 was released.

You should be able to purchase the upgrade through the Trimble reseller that you bought the device from. If you bought it in a bundle from Esri, I would imagine that you would need to contact the account manager that set you up with the bundle. If you contact the person that you bought the bundle from and/or your customer service rep they should be able to help you out.

You don't have to use NMEA to connect to ArcPad, I should have been more specific before. You can utilize the Trimble GPScorrect protocol with the GNSS serial port (COM3) to obtain a signal in ArcPad.

NMEA

Protocol: NMEA 0183
Port: COM2 NMEA Serial Port
Baud: 4800

GPScorrect

Protocol: Trimble GPScorrect
Port: COM3 GNSS Serial Port
Baud: 9600

Thanks.

RichardReardon

Tim, thanks for all of your help. I'll just purchase the Trimble GPScorrect extension then. Before I do that I must purchase ArcPad obviously. There is only one problem. Why can't I purchase ArcPad10 from the ESRI Store Online? I navigate to the software, click "add to cart", then the only thing that happens is that I am shown my cart containing a request for back-up media valued at $0.00 and there is no where to click to proceed to the checkout.

Sincerely,
Mike

TimHopper

Mike,

As a support analyst, I'm not too up to date on the procedures for purchasing new software. I went to the website and experienced the same behavior that you did.

I'd recommend just giving customer service a call. They will be able to either help you get it online, help you purchase it over the phone, or can direct you to the right representative who can help you get the software.

As you said you have the evaluation version (newest version is 10.0.2) all you'll need then is a registration number. You find that after you enter the registration number on the evaluation version, it will unlock the full version. The only actual limitation of the evaluation version is that it only runs for 20 mins at a time.

You can reach customer service @ 888-377-4575 option 5.

Good luck!

RichardReardon

Thank you very much for all of your help!

RichardReardon

Actually, one more question if you would. I purchased a Tempest antenna from trimble to use also. Do I still need the Trimble GPScorrect extension for ArcPad10? From what I understand is that this only boosts the TSIP signal, it doesn't broadcast in NMEA. So the answer to my question would be "Yes, I still need the extension". Just wondering if you could verify.

Thanks again!

PatrickMurphy

Remember that when you collect data with GPSCorrect and ARcPad, if you don't post-process the data is only accurate to about 3m. After you post-process it will be submeter. A GIS department I worked for thought that the data collected with ArcPad were automatically submeter. NOT, only if collected with Terrasync will you get that I think.

DaveAlmond

Richard-
If you are not planning to post-process your data with ESRI's GPS Analyst Extension or Trimble's Pathfinder Office software, then you don't necessarily need the GPSCorrect extension. Also, the GPSCorrect Extension does not affect the antenna, only the selection of which protocol is used to decipher the GPS satellite signals received by the receiver/antenna. The real time accuracy you can achieve with the new 6000 series XT should be submeter without post-processing, especially if you are using the external antenna. You can use the TSIP (Trimble Standard Interface Protocol) with ArcPad 10 with no problems. The real question is what type of accuracy does your project require. If you need better than 1-3 feet, then you will want to post-process your data and will need the GPSCorrect Extension plus either GPSAnalyst Extension for ArcGIS or Trimble Pathfinder Office Software to post-process your data. If 1-3 feet is acceptable for your project, save your money and use the TSIP on ArcPad 10 without post-processing, thereby eliminating the need for GPSCorrect and GPSAnalyst/Pathfinder Office.

MikeLonde

On the new 6000 series Trimble split the NMEA output oout as a separate module as a revenue enhancing step.

ericbock

You have to purchase the NMEA upgrade or Trimble GPS correct for ArcPad to work on the Geo6000. You can check your device under Start/Settings/System/System Information. At the top of your screen, scroll over to the options tab. It probably says, NMEA.................Not Activated.

Hope this helps,

eric bock

ericbock

In order to get ArcPad to work with the GeoExplorer 6000 series you need one of the following:
1) Trimble GPS Correct or
2) NMEA output

Side note, the NMEA upgrade allows you to embed the GPS coordinates into the picture and/or EXIF header when using the camera!

GPScorrect will allow you to have more control of the GPS, and you would be able to post process the data using GPS Analyst or Pathfinder Office to achieve better accuracies (up to 50cm on the GeoXT unit).

TSIP is no longer an option that works on the 6000 series. The TSIP option will work on the 2005 and 2008/3000 series geos.

So, my recommendation is to get either the software or the upgrade and use the antenna if you have it. The benefit of the antenna is that you will get it above your body (less interferance)and it has more surface area than the built in one.

Hope this helps,

Eric Bock

RobertLloyd2

Hey folks. Just found this thread via a Google search, as I've been having a similar problem to the OP with a new GeoXT 6000 and ArcPad 10.

So let me get this straight: to get the unit and software to do the main thing we bought them for, we have to additionally purchase an upgrade or separate piece of software... neither if which we were informed we would need?!?

That's unbelieveably inconvenient. These materials were purchased with Govt. funds for use on Army projects; we can't spend more money without negotiating a great deal of bureaucracy.

Profile_LinkedIn.jpg

EmmieLynch

So let me get this straight: to get the unit and software to do the main thing we bought them for, we have to additionally purchase an upgrade or separate piece of software... neither if which we were informed we would need?!?

That's unbelieveably inconvenient. These materials were purchased with Govt. funds for use on Army projects; we can't spend more money without negotiating a great deal of bureaucracy.

We're in the same boat, Robert. Had the same exact thing happen to us. And as far as I can tell, you have to have GPSCorrect or TerraSync. It's really kinda dumb and I feel like we should have been informed of this when we purchased the equipment. Maybe something they should start including in the purchase or at least mentioning so that people don't find themselves in our situation.

DavidRobinson4

Been there done that as well. We reported this in June so I guess people benefited from our experience as we wrote this up and reported to Trimble and to ESRI. At least the information is here if not in any manuals...

We are still struggling with other issues -- but I may be able to post more when I make it back to the office in a week or so.

Our main issue to be resolved now is the accuracy and the Tornado Antenna necessity and whether we should install GPS correct for sub-meter accuracy -- we really do need that for some of the geological mapping...

I guess it is just the never-ending story of automation.

PS: I do the programming and system design - i.e. IANAG (I am not a Geologist)

TimHopper

To summarize the contents of this thread:

The Trimble GeoExplorer 6000 series communicates with Trimble software applications using a Trimble proprietary protocol. If you are using Trimble TerraSync software, or the GPScorrect extension for Esri ArcPad software, there is no need for NMEA output. If you want to use other software, or the ArcPad application without the GPScorrect extension, you will need to purchase and activate the NMEA output option first.

The above statement is a snippet from the following 6000 series Trimble FAQ under the headline "Do I need NMEA output?":

http://trl.trimble.com/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-528897/GeoExplorer6000Series_CustomerFAQs_0711.pdf

As I stated earlier in this thread, I do not have the inside scoop as to why Trimble decided not to include NMEA output as a standard feature in the 6000 series as they have in all previous devices. I ran this question by one of our Trimble resellers and they weren't sure either.

My best guess is that Trimble expects that after shelling out a substantial amount of money for this device, you'd want to utilize the device to the best of it's potential. Using the NMEA output is not going to allow the device to obtain the greatest amount of accuracy that it's capable of.

I'm under the impression (and have verified with the online pdf for our GeoCollector for ArcPad bundle) that the bundle ESRI sells automatically comes with the Trimble GPScorrect extension. Yes, you would additionally need to purchase the Trimble GPS Analyst extension to post-process that data, but this does not limit you from capturing data in the field. There is the option to include the NMEA upgrade for an additional cost, but it's not necessary if you intend to utilize GPScorrect. If any of you have experienced something different when purchasing a device from ESRI I'd appreciate hearing your feedback. While I'm not a customer service representative, I'd be happy to investigate any problems which you may have run into.

Long story short:

To utilize ArcPad on the 6000 series GeoExplorer you MUST utilize Trimble GPScorrect or the optional NMEA upgrade. The TSIP protocol no longer works on the 6000 series as it did in previous releases of the GeoExplorer device.

jamesflannery

This thread answered all the questions I was needing answers for. We have recently come into possesion of a 6000 geo xh

StephanieWegscheider

Long story short:

To utilize ArcPad on the 6000 series GeoExplorer you MUST utilize Trimble GPScorrect or the optional NMEA upgrade. The TSIP protocol no longer works on the 6000 series as it did in previous releases of the GeoExplorer device.

I wish I had found this thread before purchasing the GeoXH... Very important information, thanks a lot!

christineiksic

We're in the same boat, Robert. Had the same exact thing happen to us. And as far as I can tell, you have to have GPSCorrect or TerraSync. It's really kinda dumb and I feel like we should have been informed of this when we purchased the equipment. Maybe something they should start including in the purchase or at least mentioning so that people don't find themselves in our situation.

Who are you purchasing these units from? If your buying from a Trimble reseller who are the only authorized resellers that should never happen. A 6000 Series GPS requires either a Trimble software extension or a NMEA output extension top communicate with the GPS receiver. Most users have spent the money to purchase a sub-meter or sub-foot device should have no need for NMEA as they intend to be better than sub-meter accuracies and to achieve that accuracy consistently and with confidence you need to either have a real-time data correction source in the field or be post-processing the software. I'm sorry to hear that you weren't sold the right equipment. Best of luck moving forward.

FrankToeppe

It's just as christine says, I purchased the XT from an authorized reseller and got in-depth and sufficient information of all the NMEA output option stuff above ... but the next step turns out to be a real challenge that is getting NMEA data submitted via bluetooth. Maybe there's a thread discussing that issue I woud be greatful to be redirected to ...?
Thanks Herbert

JonathanFrancis

I recently purchased a Trimble 6000series GeoXT handheld which runs
Windows Mobile 6.5 Professional. I have the Trimble GPS Controller
program installed on it, and when I run it there are plenty of
satellites available highlighted in black to show that they are
providing a signal (which is strong). The problem is when I run the
evaluation version of ArcPad10 I can't get any GPS signal. Clearly I
can get a strong signal, something just seems wrong when I move to
ArcPad. Here are my "GPS Preferences" in ArcPad10:

Protocol: NMEA 0183
Port: COM2:NMEA Serial port
Baud: 4800

These were the settings I was told to used in the setup manual provided by
Trimble for the handheld when using ArcPad (if not using GPScorrect). When
I try to let ArcPad search for a GPS signal, I recieve an error message
telling me that No GPS Signal was detected. I checked online and even when
using just the Evaluation Mode of ArcPad, I should still be able to use
the GPS function.

Note: I do not have both the GPS Controller program and ArcPad running simultaneously.

Any ideas/information on how I may resolve this connectivity problem are
greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,
Mike

I'm having this same exact problem except with Trimble R3 Recon and A3 Antenna setup. I know the GPS works because of the Skyplot in "Trimble Digital FieldBook" but when I switch to the trial version of the new ArcPad, it says "No GPS Connected". Does anyone have an idea what is wrong?

PrestonDallas

Hey Everyone

I have a different question from the rest of the forum. I am trying to collect Z-Values for point features and I am not having any luck. When I check the Z-Value on the unit while collecting it is correct but when I check the data back in it is in some other units and not even close. I found a formula to convert it but the closest I can get to the actual Z-Value is 6 feet. Is there a way to bring the Z-Value from the unit without manually typing it in or is this even possible?

Thanks

Preston

Jacob_Wittenberg

Hi Preston,

Off topic but I may be able to point you in the right direction.

When talking about elevations it's important to understand what's happening not only in the software but also consider the environment, correction source and capability of the equipment.

For example:

Are you referencing HAE or MSL for your elevation? (More over, what are you comparing your elevations with?)
Also, what type of hardware are using to collect or view this information?
Are you using this equipment with a pole, permanently mounted height fixture or holding it in your hand?
Lastly, what type of differential GNSS/GPS corrections are being used?

The above questions are valid missing pieces of information but the biggest thing that's most likely causing your issues is that ArcPad does not support Geoid Models to reference accurate MSL elevations. It's only going to allow for a constant Geoid separation value. This works in a pinch pending upon working environment and what level of accuracy you are trying to obtain. With the limited information I have my guess is that this is where you're problem lies. By Default ArcPad is storing those values as a HAE value.

Here is a link defining how ArcPad calculates and stores a Z-Value referencing MSL:

http://webhelp.esri.com/arcpad/8.0/referenceguide/index.htm#gps_rangefinder/concept_gpsheight.htm

If you're unsure about the differences between HAE and MSL this video does a great job of summing up the differences.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q65O3qA0-n4&feature=c4-overview&list=LLeiYXex_fwgYDonaTcSIk6w

More information:

http://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/geoid.html

RichmondKyei-Baffour1

Yea, I did not know this earlier until i was face with this challenge when my client , whom i should GeoXH6000, complained about it.

After a lot of research on NMEA option and upgrade from Trimble.

I have been able resolve this for my client.

Simply, using the configuration below since the client was not post processing the data with either GPS Analyst or Trimble Pathfinder Office Software.

Protocol: NMEA 0183

Port: COM2 NMEA Serial Port

Baud: 4800

It really worked!!

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