Request to split ArcGIS geoprocessing forum into subtopics

[ChrisSnyder]

Hi,

I noticed that the ArcGIS "Functions" forum topics have the following breakdown as of 08/09/2010:


(apologies for the poor formatting...)
FORUM----------------------------THREADS%-------POSTS%
-------------------------------------------------------------------
CAD Data--------------------------1.00%------------0.64%
Cartography-----------------------4.44%------------4.36%
Data Models-----------------------3.08%------------2.14%
Enterprise GIS--------------------0.79%------------0.42%
Geocoding-------------------------0.36%------------0.16%
Geodatabases/ArcSDE------------27.22%----------27.94%
Geoprocessing--------------------45.27%-----------48.01%
Imagery/Raster Data-------------12.61%-----------12.11%
Interoperability and Standards--1.29%-------------0.73%
Map Automation------------------3.15%-------------3.18%
Map Templates--------------------0.79%-------------0.31%
Nautical Mapping------------------0.00%-------------0.00% (Nautical Mapping?)
----------------------------------------------------------------
TOTAL------------------------------100%--------------100%

Based on this summary, it is quite easy to see that the Geoprocessing forum topic has by far the most traffic in terms of thread topics and "chatter" about those topics. I would like to formally request that esri split the existing Geoprocessing forum topic into at least three subtopics:

1. Geoprocessing (General)
2. ModelBuilder
3. Scripting (e.g. Python) - Personally I would put 'Map Automation via Python scripting' in here as well since it is so related...

Another simpler option would be to just create a new forum topic called "Scripting" 🙂

As a dedicated contributor to the poorly organized existing Geoprocessing forum, I find it hard to continue my contributions when there is an ever-increasing volume of seemingly non-relevant thread posts and an ever increasing level of disorganization within (in it's current state) an EXTREEMLY broad topic that obviously needs to be split into at least several sub-topics. in it's current incarnation, it includes nearly half of all the posts in the entire ArcGIS "Functions" category. Seems a bit out of whack to me...

Also, I have to say it: I am baffled that there is an apparently new forum topic called "Nautical Mapping" (0 posts so far), and NOT a dedicated ModelBuilder or Scripting forum. Cmon... Nautical Mapping? :confused: What the?!?!

Please esri - I am not alone in my frustrations here...

[ChrisSnyder]

Ted, what happened to:

"...it would be nice to have the capability to just have access to the 1 python forum..."

"...which why I am thinking, a python category makes sense."

Seems like "Python Scripting" is an important "Function" and is becoming more so for many of us...

[TedCronin]

I agree, Goh_Raj, that Jim is a very smart person who has a lot of good stuff on the forums to refer back to, and has a lot of reference for designing the forums, he has A LOT of experience with these forums.

Father knows best.  Less is more.

I Second the better search capability, again...

Ted, what happened to:

"...it would be nice to have the capability to just have access to the 1 python forum..."

"...which why I am thinking, a python category makes sense."

Seems like "Python Scripting" is an important "Function" and is becoming more so for many of us...

I only stated that Jim is a VERY smart person and he knows best.  I still think python should have its own category.  The more capability we see with python, the more sense to me, that it has its own category.  Python is not just GP tools, it has its own window now, which may be using tools, but I think python has moved a bit past just GP.  Less is more, is just that, maybe I should just say, Simple is better than complex, Sparse is better than dense...  Python itself could easily have more than one category, but for this I say Less is more.

[ArcGISUser]

The more capability we see with python, the more sense to me, that it has its own category.  Python is not just GP tools, it has its own window now, which may be using tools, but I think python has moved a bit past just GP.  Less is more, is just that, maybe I should just say, Simple is better than complex, Sparse is better than dense...  Python itself could easily have more than one category, but for this I say Less is more.

I'm playing with Arcpy.Mapping now and with all the new goodies in arcpy, yes Python could definitely have more than one category.  I don't know why, but I am currently thinking about the non-python users right now...  I keep thinking: If we have a separate python forum, do you think non-python users can just take a peek at what we are all talking about?  Would they even venture there or would they just stick to playing with tools and models?  I feel they might miss something, like miss a discussion that provided a much easier solution to their problems via python, and thus miss a chance to get them over to the sunnier side of GP.  Heck, if I were a non-Python user and read about the great things that other users are doing with arcpy.mapping, that alone would get me curious.  That is the same with anything else in Python (insert cool python stuff here) and it might trigger a "Hey I think that would help our organization too" or "Wow, you can do that in Python, let me check that out!"  I see positives and negatives for keeping GP together or splitting it up, so what happens now?

[TedCronin]

I'm playing with Arcpy.Mapping now and with all the new goodies in arcpy, yes Python could definitely have more than one category.  I don't know why, but I am currently thinking about the non-python users right now...  I keep thinking: If we have a separate python forum, do you think non-python users can just take a peek at what we are all talking about?  Would they even venture there or would they just stick to playing with tools and models?  I feel they might miss something, like miss a discussion that provided a much easier solution to their problems via python, and thus miss a chance to get them over to the sunnier side of GP.  Heck, if I were a non-Python user and read about the great things that other users are doing with arcpy.mapping, that alone would get me curious.  That is the same with anything else in Python (insert cool python stuff here) and it might trigger a "Hey I think that would help our organization too" or "Wow, you can do that in Python, let me check that out!"  I see positives and negatives for keeping GP together or splitting it up, so what happens now?

I think in regards to Python, and the users here on these forums, a separate category will not deter first time users and perhaps scare them away.  Python first and foremost is not C++, that would scare me away, but if I want to learn, I would definitely read a C++ forum, if I was thinking I would get into that language (NOT!).  Python is a fairly easy language to get your head around.  If I can use it, anyone can use it and a separate python category, would not only help long time users for a focused format, but also newbies that are just getting started.  People on these forums are here to help, I know when I run into problems where do I go, I come here, I read other people solutions (I also learn from a few people at esri, from the GP Resource Center, too), I learn from their code, which ultimately makes my code better.  If I were a new person trying to get in to something like Python, I gotta think it would be easier and more succinct to look through 400 posts in a Python thread, and not have to go through 3,000 posts in a GP thread, just to copy a bit of code for my script that may be as easy as looping through a GDB to list out FCs in their respective FDs.  Besides the new thread ultimately becomes a KB for Python, for User Python examples that solve real world issues.

I think a separate category will still get these same responses:
"Hey I think that would help our organization too"
"Wow, you can do that in Python, let me check that out!"

[ChrisSnyder]

Besides the new thread ultimately becomes a KB for Python, for User Python examples that solve real world issues

Bingo!

That's exactly how I used the old "Geoprocessing - Scripting" forum. As some one coming from an AML background, and that had gone on a very foolhardy 6 month adventure in ModelBuilder, having a meaningfully focused forum is probably one of the best, if not THE best, resource available. I credit much of my Python scripting knowledge to people like Dan Patterson, R.D. Harles, Luke Pinner, Kim Oliver, and of course others - People who know what they are doing and are willing to share that knowledge with others. Building a contributor base of knowledgeable people that are passionate about a topic is the #1 key!

If ESRI wants to rekindle "GIS automation for the masses" (which I think it does), a "Python Scripting" forum is a no brainer.

Build it and they will come... 🙂

[ChrisSnyder]

So if I rephrased the title of this thread to be:

"Should there be a new Python Scripting forum?"

Would you guys (Ted, Goh_Raj, Chris Mathers) go that way? It sounds so far like a shaky "yes", but I want to be sure. I'd poke Dan P. too, but I know he has taken an oath of silence...

[TedCronin]

So if I rephrased the title of this thread to be:

"Should there be a new Python Scripting forum?"

Would you guys (Ted, Goh_Raj, Chris Mathers) go that way? It sounds so far like a shaky "yes", but I want to be sure. I'd poke Dan P. too, but I know he has taken an oath of silence...

I am a for for a python thread, however if everyone says yes for this thread, that still leaves only 10 people out of 29,168 people that are registered on these forums, and you figure that probably 2,000 - 3,000 of these users are from Esri (Which I think you have dismissed as potential voters, already), which then makes the odds a bit better in that 10 out of 26,168 users (Taking the high of 3,000 Esri employees registered), still only accounts for .038% of total registered Esri forum users.  Not sure, if that is a number that will convince Esri to go this way or to support an additional thread.

[TedCronin]

Jim -

Perhaps you can now unstick this thread so it slowly dies away.

[JimBarry]

Jim -

Perhaps you can now unstick this thread so it slowly dies away.

Just when it's starting to pick up again?  Eh, I'll leave it up for a while.

Maybe Chris Snyder has a more interesting angle that might generate more agreement and activity.  That's why I Stuck his thread yesterday.   That is, the idea that we leave the Geoprocessing Forum the way it is, but just create a new one called "Python".   That isn't to say that there won't be some python in the GP forum if it's secondary to the topics being discussed, (or secondary to any discussion in any forum if Python keeps spreading throughout the ArcGIS system) but then if someone wants a place where they can question, answer, learn, and discuss things that are primarily Python or only Python, they'll have a place to go.

The possible downside (small?) is that if someone's working GP using Python, I expect we'd get people asking "Do I post it in GP or in Python?".  Or they'll just cross-post to both.  Maybe that's not a huge problem.  Especially seeing that the GP forum as a whole only sees about 4 or 5 new threads a day on average.

(Side Note:  It appears Chris asked that his new "Python Scripting forum" thread be deleted.  Looks like he may repost as a poll.)

[TedCronin]

Yep, that was the reason for the unstick, noting what Chris is doing with a new thread.  So, yep, we will get to see if this new direction fosters more discussion, specific to Python, because really that is what is most dear to most of us anyway, at least to us at the County in the ACR.

Thanks Jim, for the reply.