Leica Zeno 20 GPS not compatible with TLS 1.2 update

[VeronicaNixon2]

The Leica Zeno 20 GPS can no longer run Collector app following the TLS 1.2 update. Esri has been working closely with Leica for the past several months, but as far as I know there is no timeline yet for a solution. I am hoping to use this discussion to connect with other Zeno 20 users who are experiencing this and to pool our knowledge and the latest updates here.

[JoeRobinson]

We were able to work with our local distributor and Jason to get a very reasonable trade in credit for 2 of our 8 units to put towards new GG04s. This was helpful for us and so far we have been pleased with the GG04.

[ScottStopyak]

We are in the same boat. What we have opted to use is the GG04 with a galaxy mini tablet (with an air card). Both Collector and BYOD Zeno Mobile run as expected. I have never had a problem with the GG04, period. It's a great smart antenna. I do hear really good things about the EOS and they have orthometric elevation capability for Collector which is huge if you need survey grade elevation. That said, I believe ESRI is working towards orthometric elevation natively within Collector. Snapping is also on the near horizon. The Zeno 20 works pretty well with the Zeno Mobile. The biggest problem about that is the 3G modem. I understand that Sprint may be the only carrier that continues to support 3G and they will until 2024. Use of a Mifi didn't work for us because the RTK dropped every 30 seconds or so making it dangerous for work where you have to be in and out of traffic in a hurry. We didn't use Sprint because they don't have good coverage in our county. I'm using the GG04 with the Galaxy mini tablet almost exclusively now. The Zeno is pretty much mothballed but can be used in a pinch in a limited capacity. The new proxy seems to be working better than before but basemap rendering is still slow. You can sideload the basemaps onto the device for better performance, I imagine. My current workflow is to use Zeno Mobile (I need orthometric height) then export to dropbox. Then I average my occupations on a point and import the data into the geodatabase using a python script that basically runs the Mean Center and Append tools. It is disappointing news that the proxy will eventually be obsolete. Maybe Leica can work towards implementing editing of map services in Zeno Mobile? It can already display some of them. Trying to maintain compatibility with ESRI is really tough. Compatibility is not at all ESRI's jam and their release cycle is aggressive. 

[JasonHooten1]

Hi Scott,

Zeno Connect was recently upgraded and now supports geoids to provide orthometric heights. Zeno Mobile has an update coming within the coming weeks that will enable map editing services when used with AGOL and Enterprise. We are very committed to moving forward with improving overall user experience with these new upgrades and the GG04plus. Let me know if you need any info on either of the Zeno software updates. Happy to help.

[ScottStopyak]

So we'll be able to edit hosted REST feature services from ArcGIS Server or AGO within Zeno Mobile? If that's the case, Collector wouldn't even be necessary. Very cool, if I'm reading that right.

[JasonCiak]

   As the GIS Manager for an Engineering firm, I can't even begin to express my disappointment over this.  Beginning in 2016, I've had 3 of my clients purchase these devices.  The 3 clients have 5, 3 and 2 devices between them - I'm sure you can do the math on about how much money has been put into purchasing.  My one client that has 5 started with 3 and then purchased another over the next 2 years.  All ESRI clients using Collector on these devices since day 1 as advertised.

The Zeno 20 is an older device, out since early 2015. - Jason Hooten

   These devices(or mine at least) are running Android 4.2 which was released in November of 2012.  So a product coming to market in 2015 was using an OS almost 3 years older when Android 5 had already been released.  I understand development time and hardware restrictions, and when we first got them in 2016 I had realized it was an older OS, but just seems like a major oversight in my opinion.

   This product was such a great start for my clients and now we are all frustrated.  They are frustrated for their investment.  I'm frustrated because it was my recommendation to use the product.  We're frustrated over a product that ESRI advertised on their website, emails and mailings I've seen over the years.

   We are presently using the proxy for 2 of my clients and the Portal solution for my big, water purveyor client.  Even if Zeno Mobile integrates with web services I have my reservations - My water purveyor client, on top of using Collector to collect GPS positions on point layers, is also using Collector to add related records for inspections from the field including the additions of pictures.  Multiple layers, multiple relationship classes for inspections, all configured and working for years using Collector on the Zeno.

   Also a big selling point was the handheld with the option to upgrade to an antenna - my water purveyor purchased 2 of them as well - $.  I hear the GG04 works well but the option to not have to use an antenna was a big selling point.

   So now we just tick-tock and wait for the clock to strike midnight...

[ScottStopyak]

I'd be interested to know if the feature service editing functionality in Zeno Mobile will be similar to Collector? Will it support all geometry types? What about attachments? Related tables? Filters? 

[JasonHooten1]

Mr Ciak,

I can understand your frustrations and comments. To offer perspective in regards to the OS, the design likely started in 2013. Also, we used Android Open Source which was popular during that time to use in order to bring Android to devices originally designed for Windows Mobile OS. Manufacturers like Leica work in quantities far different than a Samsung or Apple. Therefore we cannot roll out new handheld and OS upgrades annually. Take Trimble “new” TDC 150 unit. It is only Android 6 when the market you reference is Android 10. I understand frustration, but I hope to shed light on why things are the way they are and gain your understanding as well. You and I have not spoken before, but I am open to discussing options to move forward that helps you and your customers. I believe that is more constructive than just being mad and making posts online. Let’s work together to improve the situation for both now and moving forward.

Jason.Hooten@Leica-Geosystems.com

Jason Hooten

GIS Sales & Support Manager, US & Canada

Leica Geosystems

Email: jason.hooten@leica-geosystems.com

Direct: 317.526.7036

[PaulLohr]

Jason Ciak,

How well did the cellular connection work on the Leica Zeno 20? Any problems with it?

Thank you for any help.

[ScottStopyak]

I'm not Jason, but I'll chime in. You can maybe use Sprint if they are still supporting 3G. Most carriers aren't. We have used a mifi with ours on verizon which has good coverage where we operate. It will work but the connection to the 20 will also drop a lot. If you have the luxury of patience, you can collect points. If you need to collect points on the move or in and out of traffic, you'll need to use different equipment.

[JasonCiak]

Hey Scott & Paul,

Yeah - 3G is on it's way out here in New Jersey, but even when it was working back in 2016 we found that the connection was too slow - especially with uploading of attachments.  Pretty much from the get-go we purchased 4G hotspots for use with the Zenos.  There isn't really much of a price difference - it's just an active broadband plan like a cell phone.  Hotspots have worked beautifully for the Zenos - just one extra device to charge and maintain!