topic Re: UC Whiplash? in User Conference Questions

UC Whiplash?

Greg_Mattis — Wed, 19 Jul 2017 20:26:20 GMT

Did anyone else receive UC Whiplash regarding information about ArcGIS Pro and ArcMap depreciation?

Before the UC, I heard from a Customer Advocacy Lead at Esri that ArcMap is going away and then Jack said at the Plenary that it isn't going away and will continue to be supported. Then during the UC, many of the Esri employees that I talked to and presented both in the Expo Hall and at the in Sessions said that ArcMap is going away and even a few of them even provided a date range of 2022 or 2023. But then Jack in the closing session said that it isn't going away and will continue to be supported? Which one is it? It can't be both?

If people have thoughts or also shared my experience I would be interested to know.

Re: UC Whiplash?

AdrianWelsh — Wed, 19 Jul 2017 20:48:44 GMT

Greg,

From what I understand, each new ArcMap release will have like six years of support for it. So in 2018 with 10.6.1 comes out (according to data from the Plenary session) (or possibly even 2019 when it comes out), this version will be supported until 2024 or 2025.

Though, take a look at this support roadmap

http://support.esri.com/en/Products/Desktop/arcgis-desktop/arcmap/10-5-1#product-support

It might answer some questions and might muddy up more...

Re: UC Whiplash?

Greg_Mattis — Wed, 19 Jul 2017 20:54:38 GMT

Hi Adrian,

Yes I understand about the product life cycle support however when Jack mentioned at the closing session that they will continue to support it, he didn't mention at what level they will support it. For instance being certified on newer Operating Systems. From what I heard all over the place at UC from Esri employees is that ArcMap is going away but that is contrary to what I heard Jack say.

Re: UC Whiplash?

Robert_LeClair — Wed, 19 Jul 2017 21:37:38 GMT

Greg - in our ArcGIS Pro: An Introduction Technical Workshop, David Watkins and I presented a 75-minute presentation/demo on Pro with a group of commonly asked questions. The first "Will ArcGIS Pro replace ArcMap?" The response - yes.

With that said, ArcMap will continue being part of the ArcGIS Desktop for the near future meaning 10.6.x. I don't know what the ArcMap Dev Team will do past that (i.e. ArcGIS 11) as I'm in Training Services. If you look where Esri is investing $$$ into for Desktop, it is ArcGIS Pro. ArcMap will have minimal new enhancements but continue with stability and bug fixes, that's it. Adrian is correct about the 6-year support cycle for products. Figure 2023-2024 for 10.6 retirement, then 10.6.1, and 10.6.2 after that.

Re: UC Whiplash?

KoryKramer — Wed, 19 Jul 2017 23:28:03 GMT

Greg,

The Q & A for this year's UC provides the answer to your question.

Will ArcMap be replaced with ArcGIS Pro? http://www.esri.com/about/events/uc/get-involved/q-and-a#id=1584

"Yes. ArcGIS Pro will eventually replace ArcMap. We will continue to support and maintain ArcMap. However, our focus is on making ArcGIS Pro the world’s best desktop GIS. There are still some capabilities of ArcMap that are not yet in ArcGIS Pro, so some ArcGIS Desktop users will be using both ArcGIS Pro and ArcMap till Pro has everything you need to fully support your work."

What is the retirement schedule for ArcMap? http://www.esri.com/about/events/uc/get-involved/q-and-a#id=1586

"While Esri has moved most of its development efforts to ArcGIS Pro, we will continue to provide support and minor bug fixes in ArcMap for a long time (you can find the ArcMap Product Life Cycle on the Esri website). This means that users will be able to use legacy ArcMap applications and workflows long into the future. At the same time, all ArcMap users have the ability to use ArcGIS Pro in their desktop environment. There will be many sessions at the conference this year that show the new features and the advantages of migrating to ArcGIS Pro."

The link to the Product Life Cycle is above, but here is an example:

I hope that this information helps to solidify the answer, but please let us know if something remains unclear.

Thank you!

Re: UC Whiplash?

AdrianWelsh — Thu, 20 Jul 2017 03:43:50 GMT

It sounds like we're all answering the same way without answering the real question of whether or not Jack Dangermond is contradicting what all of these sites are saying. I would assume that what is in the product life cycle sites from Esri's site would be the "law" so to speak and not something Jack said during the opening or closing sessions. Especially the Q&A site - I feel like that is supposed to come from Jack and the Esri staff as a whole, right?

Re: UC Whiplash?

RebeccaStrauch__GISP — Tue, 22 Jun 2021 08:31:35 GMT

You have to keep in mind that Jack speaks in broad strokes at the plenary (and to an extent at closing) to try to excite and boost energy for the week and beyond. In the same way that tech support and trainers will always defer any licensing specifics to customer support/distributor, Jack is not contradicting, it's just that " it isn't going away and will continue to be supported" is really a matter of relative time. Eventually it may be replace (and per the life cycle that does seem to be the case), just like Arc/Info Workstation still works (with concurrent licensing), but is no longer sold or technically support.

Case in point of something Jack said a few years ago at the plenary (paraphrasing) "if you have Desktop, you automatically get Pro" (could be applied to named users too). In general terms that was correct, but the details that were not mentioned at the Plenary/Closing were:

that is only true for licenses on maintenance,
but if you are using concurrent licenses, that is only true for the number of seats you have on maintenance, not just because you have Desktop installed. ()note: since that time, you can now have concurrent Pro seats, so this can be true)

So, although it all was technically true, and everyone got a bit excited, it wasn't 100% true for all cases.

So, in my opinion, the statement is true in that it is not going away "in the short term", which is a line he didn't say, and which is of course a relative time-frame anyway. As a user that still remembers my Workstation roots, the once constant with the GIS software is change, and use what works for you, but keep an eye on the moving technology front. (Just hope ArcCatalog remains or a Pro equivalent is made..vote up https://community.esri.com/ideas/12671 )

Re: UC Whiplash?

Robert_LeClair — Thu, 20 Jul 2017 14:59:57 GMT

As a fellow ArcInfo Workstation veteran, I have seen the evolution of GIS software from Workstation->ArcView->ArcGIS Desktop->ArcGIS Pro over the last 25 years or so. This current phase of migration from one Desktop mapping application to a newer model is really not new and has occurred 2-3 times. What is different in this case is ArcMap has been with us for a very long time - 1999 to present. 18 years public release, 20 years if you add in development time. ArcView GIS was only with us for what 5-6 years? ArcGIS Pro is a modern GIS application that is very close to ArcMap equivalency. It will get there soon and then go well beyond ArcMap capabilities. In my opinion, ArcMap really wasn't usable for me until 8.3 and really didn't hit it's stride until 9.2. My favorite saying in life - "the only constant is change..."

Re: UC Whiplash?

curtvprice — Thu, 20 Jul 2017 16:42:35 GMT

Say it brother!

Re: UC Whiplash?

curtvprice — Thu, 20 Jul 2017 16:50:34 GMT

It should be said (and I have this on good authority from the excellent Margaret M at Esri Support) that there are still people quietly and happily using Workstation out there. One reason is it is extremely stable, as its underlying framework is still supported by Windows and Unix, and there is no ongoing development to break things. (Interestlying, workstation 9.x performs better than 10.x on x64 Windows for some reason) 🙂 I bet it runs great under Linux's WINE but I have not personally tried it. Workstation still executes with minimal issues 20 years later. Pretty amazing! I have a neat Python tool that allows me to run Workstation command-line stuff from a Pro toolbox haha. It works great.

ArcInfo Workstation Guidance‌

Re: UC Whiplash?

RebeccaStrauch__GISP — Thu, 20 Jul 2017 16:53:32 GMT

Nice Curtis.....now if I could only get a license for my personal use at home....... (sigh)

BTW - I have it working on Windows 7...and I think I've had it running on Windows 10 too

Re: UC Whiplash?

Robert_LeClair — Thu, 20 Jul 2017 16:54:22 GMT

A few of my students still use ArcInfo Workstation along with the AML scripts written 20 years ago - it just keeps on going!

Re: UC Whiplash?

JeffRoland — Thu, 20 Jul 2017 19:12:26 GMT

Greg, I had the same question about the future of ArcGIS Desktop. I've just spent 10 minutes on the ESRI site looking for ArcGIS Desktop. I can't find it. If you go up to Products, it isn't listed as one of the main products. If you click on More to see all of ESRI's products, it is listed. HOWEVER, if you click on it then you are taken to the ArcGIS Pro page. ??? It seems as if they are already trying to wipe it from our memories.

I have spent the last 2 days trying to learn to do one of my projects in PRO. There are a few things I like such as anti-alias maps, but there are far more things I don't like such as the lack of customization of the user interface. The old method of opening any tool bar and docking it where I liked is far superior to this ribbon user interface. Switching between ribbons is counter productive. It's also harder to customize the ribbons. Gone are the days when you could just make your own toolbar with the few tools you needed for a specific repetitive task.

Grant it, I'm still learning PRO and I'm sure it will grow on me in time. However, I don't think it's quite ready for prime time yet. I experienced several bugs just trying to edit tables and it doesn't seem to have all the capabilities that ArcMap does.

Re: UC Whiplash?

DawnWright — Fri, 21 Jul 2017 02:48:45 GMT

Rebecca Strauch, GISP‌ have you seen ArcGIS for Personal Use Program | ArcGIS for Desktop Advanced for Personal Use ?

Re: UC Whiplash?

RebeccaStrauch__GISP — Fri, 21 Jul 2017 06:27:58 GMT

Hi Dawn Wright ....lol yes, I was actually talking/joking about the old reliable ArcInfo Workstation Which you can't even purchase anymore....especially since you can't buy new concurrent use licenses. I'm old school and just going to miss having access to it (I have access at work). But I actually do have the personal use too.

Re: UC Whiplash?

DawnWright — Fri, 21 Jul 2017 18:57:24 GMT

I know what you mean! Those were some good, productive days!

Re: UC Whiplash?

DawnWright — Fri, 21 Jul 2017 18:58:14 GMT

It sure does! The EPA Western Regional Lab in Corvallis, OR still runs their AML scripts successfully too!

Re: UC Whiplash?

Greg_Mattis — Fri, 21 Jul 2017 20:07:50 GMT

Rebecca,

When Pro was first launched it was authorized by your ArcGIS Online Named User from the entitlement and therefore required you stay current on maintenance. However at future releases of ArcGIS Pro, they enabled users to authorize with their Single Use license or their Concurrent Use license. By doing that it made it possible to use ArcGIS Pro even if you were not current on maintenance. You just would not receive access to ArcGIS Online and wouldn't be able to use some of the functionality of ArcGIS Pro. I hope this makes sense.

Greg

Re: UC Whiplash?

JimMcKinney — Fri, 21 Jul 2017 20:37:03 GMT

Hi Jeff,

Sorry it was not clear where to find current information on ArcMap. I'll let the folks who look after the website know this.

Here's the link I think you were looking for. http://desktop.arcgis.com/en/arcmap/

This is a good thread, lots of good opinions! I'd like to add mine if you don't mind. And a shout out to the Arc/Info users and AML scripters, that's how I grew up using GIS as well.

None of us can control what Jack says, Jack is Jack. But in my last conversation with him, he was very clear, and our development teams are very clear, that we will continue to support ArcMap for a long time. We know the critically important work our users do that has depended on ArcMap for a long time, and will for several years to come. We will support you in this work - I think that is the essence of Jack's statements and our collective goal, to serve you well and support you in your work. That's our job. When he reads this, and he will, because he reads everything sent to him amazingly, he can speak for himself, or correct me. Having said this, many new software opportunities now exist (beyond ArcMap) that Esri is very excited to share with our users, because we truly feel you can do even more amazing and valuable work using them, if you choose to do so. This is the ArcGIS Platform, and the Web GIS pattern - ArcGIS Online, Enterprise, Apps, Solutions, the Living Atlas (and more) and of course, ArcGIS Pro supporting both stand alone GIS workflows, and as a powerful connected desktop to the ArcGIS Platform - AND ArcMap, working as a system.

We hope what was shown and discussed at the UC last week, and throughout the year, helps you understand this (new) value better with more opportunities for our global community to make a positive differences in the world. We worked very hard on the UC Survey answers, and our messaging at the UC, but we are human, and sometimes say things unclearly in the spur of the moment, please forgive us, we will try to do better here. The details of what a "support" statement is can be found in many web sites, such as described above and http://support.esri.com/en/other-resources/product-life-cycle. These are up to date good resources, but please balance the quest for these details with our spoken statements and actions, which is to support and serve our users while building great GIS software. The rubber meets the road when you call Technical Support for help or an issue, and you get support - for ArcMap - and or we ship a software fix if need be, and you will.

I'm responsible for the development of both ArcMap and Pro, working with a large team of highly motivated, intelligent and caring amazing people who work hard to ensure your success. We are one Desktop Team, responsible for ArcMap and Pro simultaneously, always thinking about both, and ArcCatalog, ArcScene and ArcGlobe too. Our team is working hard on 10.6 right now and it will include the best ArcMap we have ever shipped with new focused functionality and support for better global use, as well as performance and quality improvements. We plan to ship 10.6 by the end of 2017. 10.6 is the next release of ArcMap, its not the last release of ArcMap. Into 2018, expect to see updates to ArcMap in 10.6.1, 10.6.2...etc, normal release cycles like how we released 10.4 and 10.5.

We are an agile software company (believe it or not), and our plans can change dynamically based on a number of factors that I won't go into. So, the timelines we shared at the UC last week in the Plenary and at the road ahead sessions are really our current active development plans, I presented them myself in my sessions. But they could change, I'm just being honest about this. We were asked to be more transparent here, so our Desktop team now shares our development plans for Pro in geonet, because that is where the bulk of our innovation is going now https://community.esri.com/community/gis/applications/arcgis-pro/blog. We hope people find this valuable for planing around migration from ArcMap to Pro if they are thinking of doing so.

So I started this reply with a simple URL for ArcMap information and it turned into several long winded opinions on lots of topics, maybe a little preachy, my bad, sorry. But, I would like to end this reply with another URL for you to consider, on your schedule, when you're ready, not because of an "ArcMap is going away" assumption or feeling, which it is not anytime soon. Give it a try, let us know what you think: http://pro.arcgis.com

Best,

Jim

Re: UC Whiplash?

BrianOevermann — Mon, 24 Jul 2017 15:31:15 GMT

I "virtually" nod my head in agreement with many of the comments here. Some days I miss Workstation, too, having 'cut my GIS teeth' on it. Desktop has allowed me to be productive in all of tasks I routinely perform--and it should given how long it has been around. Not so with Pro.

ArcGIS Pro is definitely not ready for prime time! Add more than a few layers and I seem to be waiting for screen re-draws more than doing actual productive work. I have a recent, decently configured machine, though not a humongous workstation or Cray supercomputer.

I was elated when we were allowed to convert Named User accounts to Concurrent licenses for Pro. The Named User account structure/cost is my largest concern moving forward with our GIS program (we are a city of 35K population). While virtually all of our data is public, we do keep certain data, such as utilities, less "open" due to security concerns. The steady move to require a Name User account to even view data in our interactive map apps unless access is publicly wide open will, given the current cost of NU accounts, price us entirely out of using Esri software because a majority of our internal staff utilize some number of internal "non-public" layers/data (and, thus, require yet another NU account). I'm already beginning to track open source and other options more closely--something I've never felt the need to do.

Either that or take a cue from the Workstation holdouts and become a technology "hermit"...

Brian