topic Re: Quitting Desktop Cold Turkey in ArcGIS Pro Questions

Quitting Desktop Cold Turkey

JasonBritton1 — Tue, 23 May 2017 16:59:00 GMT

I've been a Desktop user for about 14 years. I have seen a lot of reasons that users are saying avoid ArcGIS Pro. Just thought I'd share my experience since I've quit ArcGIS for Desktop. I had played with Pro after going to the SE UC a few years back but didn't commit. I decided to change because my attribute updates to services hosted on ArcGIS Online decided not to save when editing in ArcMap. Tech support couldn't duplicate the issue on their end and couldn't figure out why it wouldn't work. On a whim I wanted to see if the same issue would happen in Pro. When I moved everything into a Pro project the edits to my online services worked as they should. Just as a point of info I don't develop or write scripts so I can't speak to how that works.

The biggest hurdle in migrating to pro is relearning where everything is. The interface has changed a lot, but thanks to google its pretty easy to find what you are looking for. Editing is a bit clunkier in my opinion than it is in Desktop. One suggestion I have would be to bring the snapping options back to the right click menu. Another issue is that so far there is still no fix for creating hyperlinks in the identify window. I brought this up about two years ago and as far as I can see, it seems like it still hasn't been addressed. The last negative I have is that labeling is a bit slower but its really a minor inconvenience.

Pro does make it much easier to work with those items that are hosted on portal and ArcGIS Online. My organization has made a heavy commitment to Online and it has definitely made my maintenance for the hosted services much more convenient. The ability to create multiple layouts in a single project is also a big plus. I've seen some worry about the lack of ArcCatalog. You use the Project Pane in Pro. It works essentially the same as the catalog window in an mxd but with some added functionality. So it's pretty much ArcCatalog its just not available as a standalone program.

ESRI can deny it all they want, but the bottom line is this is going to replace Desktop. Maybe not this year, but eventually it will. Overall I'd say I'm happy with the switch. Once I become more familiar with the interface I don't expect it will feel much different than Desktop did. I'd recommend that users start becoming familiar with this program.

Re: Quitting Desktop Cold Turkey

KoryKramer — Tue, 30 May 2017 13:08:23 GMT

Thank you for the refreshing opinion, Jason. I wanted to respond to some of your input here.

I hear you about learning where things are in Pro, and this is something that we hear a lot from other users as they begin to use Pro. From your positive attitude towards Pro, it sounds like you’ve left this hurdle far behind you, but I wanted to make sure that other users who find this resource are aware of the great ArcGIS Pro quick-start tutorials. There are 15 tutorials and many of them take only 10 or 20 minutes (that’s why they’re quick-start tutorials). These aren’t meant to teach you GIS; they’re meant to familiarize a user with the new (to them) application. So for those of us who have a lot of experience using ArcMap, and GIS professionals with many years of experience like yourself, these tutorials are a very effective way to quickly learn how to get around and be productive in ArcGIS Pro.

For those who want to dig deeper, there are 76 ArcGIS Pro tutorials, web courses, videos and seminars on https://www.esri.com/training/ and 11 lessons on http://learn.arcgis.com/en/ . Or if you prefer books, you could use Getting to Know ArcGIS Pro. You get the point - there are resources out there to help transition from using ArcMap as your desktop GIS to embracing ArcGIS Pro.

If there are things that you find clunky or ideas and functionality that you want to see in Pro, please check out the ArcGIS Ideas site. Look to see if somebody has already posted that Idea, vote it up and provide your story in the comments. If you can’t find it, submit a new idea!

We also hear a lot about the need for more data management functionality in Pro (Catalog). This is an area that is continually being developed with some notable changes coming in Pro 2.0. Every version sees new functionality so we continue to encourage you and the entire user community to communicate your challenges and needs so that we can address them.

We can expect to see a release of ArcMap 10.5.1 pretty soon, and then ArcMap 10.6 at the end of the year; however, ArcGIS Pro is the focus for new development efforts as it is the future of the ArcGIS Desktop product. Customer feedback continues to be a key driver of ArcGIS Pro software development. Therefore, we encourage you to continue commenting and posting your ideas as this helps us to build ArcGIS Pro to meet your needs and requirements.

Thanks again for your comments and we look forward to keeping the conversation going.

Re: Quitting Desktop Cold Turkey

JoshuaSchwartz — Tue, 30 May 2017 16:51:23 GMT

Quick question on Pro -

What if I don't want to create a new project or project folder, but rather just open the application, manipulate some data and exit? Is there a way to invoke the mapping portion of the application without creating a project or project folder?

Re: Quitting Desktop Cold Turkey

KoryKramer — Tue, 22 Jun 2021 08:40:49 GMT

Joshua, please see https://community.esri.com/ideas/9992‌. You can up vote that Idea and provide comments if you'd like. There are also some suggestions in the comments on how to work with the Project design. You could essentially just have a "scratch" project that you open up to manipulate data and exit. You don't have to ever save the project if all you're doing is quickly looking at some data, or even changing data.

Re: Quitting Desktop Cold Turkey

JoshuaSchwartz — Tue, 30 May 2017 17:41:13 GMT

Thanks, Kory. I have what I'm calling a Default project that I'm using exactly as you described.

Re: Quitting Desktop Cold Turkey

AndrewQuee — Wed, 31 May 2017 23:57:20 GMT

I know there are many changes that need to happen before Pro is a 'fully featured' replacement for Desktop. Just off the bat, in our business as data managers, and even in some of our users processing workflows, it is essential to use ArcCatalog side-by-side, or standalone. Until add standalone data catalog is actioned, we will not be migrating to Pro.

As a government mapping and data warehousing agency, until Pro provides the full range of cartographic and raster management tools that Desktop does, as well as a fully realised development environment for the customisations we require to maintain productivity levels, we have no intention to migrate to Pro.

As an indication, we have one Pro install which we use as a toy to see what Esri is up to from time to time. Then we go back to Desktop to get work done.

Re: Quitting Desktop Cold Turkey

IainStuart — Wed, 31 May 2017 23:57:29 GMT

Fundamentally if ESRI pushes everything to on-line/cloud platforms then there will be a problem for those of us whose clients absolutely do not want their data anywhere near on-line and cloud for data security reasons.

Re: Quitting Desktop Cold Turkey

DanPatterson_Retired — Thu, 01 Jun 2017 00:36:08 GMT

Nice summary Jason... Good points from all above

But I age myself when I say...

I found the transition easier than the transition from the ArcView to the ArcGIS world ... everything changed...(won't even go to the ArcInfo stuff)

The big change for me was the programming languages. ArcObjects certainly didn't offer the ease of Avenue, but it is nice to see that open source languages and applications have been embraced (python, r, numpy, scipy, pandas, matplotlib etc.

Perhaps over time, more can or will be added

Re: Quitting Desktop Cold Turkey

JasonBritton1 — Thu, 01 Jun 2017 20:09:54 GMT

I don't think it will be everything. My guess would be ESRI would maintain some version of ArcServer so users would have the option of configuring content for internal sources.

Re: Quitting Desktop Cold Turkey

KoryKramer — Thu, 01 Jun 2017 20:51:15 GMT

ArcGIS Pro doesn't force a user to expose data online (to the cloud). If you already use ArcGIS Server (now called ArcGIS Enterprise What is ArcGIS Enterprise?—Portal for ArcGIS (10.5) | ArcGIS Enterprise ) you have access to Portal for ArcGIS What is Portal for ArcGIS?—Portal for ArcGIS (10.5) | ArcGIS Enterprise Portal is an on-premises solution that is analogous to ArcGIS Online, but entirely on your own servers, behind your firewall. If these are concerns for you, as they certainly are for many organizations, I would highly recommend reading up on Portal.

Re: Quitting Desktop Cold Turkey

PamelaBond — Fri, 02 Jun 2017 15:58:04 GMT

I took a one day workshop going through the basics of ArcGIS Pro. It was really helpful for getting to know the new interface. I have not fully committed to using ArcGIS Pro but I try and use it at least every once in a while. The transition to ArcGIS Pro from ArcGIS Desktop reminds me of when Microsoft Office products switched from a dropdown menu bar to the ribbon-based menu bar - the tools are all there, I just need to figure out where. A couple of my biggest complaints so far are 1)I am still finding Pro to be a bit buggy - weird behavior that is inconsistent and requires restart 2)Even though I upgraded my computer to meet (and exceed) most all of the specs, I can still pretty consistently crash Pro 3)No ArcCatalog - how am I supposed to have persistent database and GIS connections? I have a whole slew (20+) GIS servers that I am connected to.

Also hearing lots of rumors about getting rid of concurrent use licenses. It would not work well for my agency if we have to move to single use licenses. We have a couple hundred users but only a few power users. The concurrent licenses system works brilliantly for us. Speaking of concurrent - it would be really nice if ArcGIS Online would allow concurrent licenses, or at least the ability to "deactive" a user without deleting there account so that someone else could use it for a while. We have folks interested in using the Collector and Survey123 apps but would only need them for a month of two. Monthly (instead of annual) subscriptions would also work.

Re: Quitting Desktop Cold Turkey

JasonBritton1 — Fri, 02 Jun 2017 16:03:41 GMT

We got around the user issue by making a generic department user. That way you have one for occasional or short term use.

Re: Quitting Desktop Cold Turkey

MattWilkie3 — Mon, 05 Jun 2017 23:17:23 GMT

If there are things that you find clunky or ideas and functionality that you want to see in Pro, please check out the ArcGIS Ideas site. Look to see if somebody has already posted that Idea, vote it up and provide your story in the comments. If you can’t find it, submit a new idea!

I'd be a lot more enthusiastic about contributing and participating in ArcGIS Ideas if I see any movement on the ones that are important to me and my work. For instance the Standalone ArcCatalog for Pro already mentioned in this thread has a score of 1980, which places it at or near the top 100 of all ideas contributed thus far, over 12000. It hasn't been merited an "Under Consideration" by the powers that be or a response from Esri as to why this popular idea is not being considered at this time.

This is not an outlier. Most of the ideas I've voted for are in this same boat. For example Permanently re-order fields is approaching 30k points, as measured from the birth of the ArcGIS Ideas site in 2010. Please note that re-ordering fields has been asked for since ArcGIS 8 in 1999. (This one at least is "under consideration" and has had a few Esri staff make some comments. However an idea this important to so many people and with such a long pedigree and deserves a head-on full bodied response.)

Re: Quitting Desktop Cold Turkey

KoryKramer — Tue, 22 Jun 2021 08:40:52 GMT

Hi Matt Wilkie‌. As you mentioned, today there are more than 12,000 ideas on the site - which is GREAT that there are so many thoughts from the user community about things that could improve the software for your work. That said, as I'm sure you'll understand, it is not possible, nor desirable to implement all ideas that are submitted on the site.

I provided background into the process in https://community.esri.com/community/gis/applications/arcgis-pro/blog/2017/05/01/arcgis-desktop-ideas-on-the-move-april-2017?sr=search&searchId=b7824fd5-9e31-45eb-a35e-11349debcc7a&searchIndex=0‌

"As time goes by, ideas get up votes, down votes and comments from the user community. Advocacy Leads frequently monitor the site, and usually on a monthly basis report on trends to our respective Product teams. Ideas may be discussed because they have a high overall score. But if that were the only criteria, as it takes time to accumulate a high score, relatively new ideas wouldn’t make it into the discussion. So we also look at things like how fast an idea’s score is growing – how many up votes this month? – how many up votes this year? Sometimes we also see an idea collect a wide variety of user stories. It may not have an incredibly high score, or even be growing as fast as other ideas. But what if, out of 15 up votes, the community has provided 15 unique and compelling user stories in the comments? Those user stories may reveal that the functionality could be used across a number of different industries, meaning that implementing the idea would have a greater impact than something that is a niche use. This is a really good reason to not only vote for ideas that you’d like to see, but also provide your user story in the comments!"

While specific ideas that you've voted for may not have changed status or been implemented yet, as you can see from that blog, there definitely is a lot of movement of ideas. I can say that the teams do try to be deliberate when moving an idea to Under Consideration - there may be application design considerations that would need to be figured out before the idea could be seriously considered, and sometimes there are dependencies on some other functionality having to be implemented first, before an idea would be possible to implement. At other times, there might be framework issues that don't allow for the consideration of an idea.

I don't mean to present this here as an excuse for why ideas aren't moved into the product plan and implemented, rather as an extension of the explanation of the process provided in the quote above. I can assure you that https://community.esri.com/ideas/12671‌ is high on the list of things the Pro team is looking at as it is a fast-growing idea. If you have a few minutes, it is always helpful to provide some specifics in the Comments section as others have been doing on that idea. And since we have this communication channel open, is the "stand alone" part of that idea an integral piece in your mind? What if Pro did everything that you needed in terms of data management, but it did it within the single application rather than through a separate, stand-alone app? Would that meet your needs? From other comments on that thread, it sounds like maybe so, as long as a separate project doesn't have to be created to work with data management: https://community.esri.com/ideas/9992‌ Again, a design consideration...

Re: Quitting Desktop Cold Turkey

ThomasColson — Tue, 06 Jun 2017 15:12:06 GMT

Most GIS'ers, like AutoCAD'ers, have multiple monitors for the explicit purpose of managing tools and data on one screen, and the ability to drag them over to a workspace. I'm struggling to understand why Pro Developers aren't understanding how most GIS users efficiently work, and keep trying to justify the lack of dual workspaces with responses like "...but it did it within the single application rather than through a separate, stand-alone app." . And I'll ask again, if the functionality is present in ArcMap, and it works, and the customers like/want/depend on it, why remove it, then tell the customers to provide a written justification for it's return, which, in most cases, will be a futile exercise, as others in this thread have confirmed?

Re: Quitting Desktop Cold Turkey

MattWilkie3 — Tue, 06 Jun 2017 15:43:38 GMT

Thanks for taking the time to engage and provide feedback Kory. That action is precisely what I see missing from the Ideas space. My complaint is less that my personal pet peeves are not acted on, though some of that is certainly present, and more that Esri Inc. is so opaque on what doesn't get acted on and why. Substantive responses, dealing with specifics, not hand wavy "oh there are so many things to consider, such as x, and y, and z" -- all of which are true, but don't serve to illuminate.

Re: Quitting Desktop Cold Turkey

MattWilkie3 — Tue, 06 Jun 2017 16:06:29 GMT

...is the "stand alone" part of that idea an integral piece in your mind? What if Pro did everything that you needed in terms of data management, but it did it within the single application rather than through a separate, stand-alone app? Would that meet your needs?

I use Catalog in situations where I'm only manipulating data, with no map involved. I want/need as much screen real estate as possible to expand folders and databases, drag things from one place to another, and so on. I also use catalog when geoprocessing, working on code and models*.

I don't care if the experience is controlled by a single .exe file or 5**. What I'm after is being able to maximize my time and efficiency. One of the ways I do that is to use one command sequence for working on map project (Start >> ArcMap) and another one for working on gp/data project (Start >> ArcCatalog). If I can start Pro (Start >> Pro as Catalog) and have the opening view zap all ribbons and controls dealing with Table of Contents, Page Layout, Symbology etc. and expose all the tools for data management I'd be happy. (This presupposes the ability to have multiple sessions running at once, with the ability to drag and drop from one session to the other.)

* The only benefit I can see at the moment of having Catalog completely embedded in the mother app is being able to save GP Results for future sessions.

** I do care if the launch time is 5 times longer to load the mother of all applications, when my job of the moment only needs 1 aspect. So many of my scripts and models take handfuls of seconds and less to run, but half a minute to start because `import arcpy` is a sloth.

Re: Quitting Desktop Cold Turkey

MattWilkie3 — Tue, 06 Jun 2017 16:11:51 GMT

Generic or shared named user accounts are a practical response, but against the license terms. (I think that's wrong, but that's what it is)

Re: Quitting Desktop Cold Turkey

MattWilkie3 — Tue, 06 Jun 2017 16:27:31 GMT

Jason, I just wanted to add that I think it's great you're having a good experience with Pro and that it's working for you and what you do. I didn't mean to crash the party. We have threads for a reason. 😉

Re: Quitting Desktop Cold Turkey

CarmenGonsalves — Tue, 06 Jun 2017 16:33:38 GMT

Has anyone came across separating two stacked points in Pro? I know in 10.5 I could just switch which selected point I was working with. Hasn't seemed that easy in Pro. I definitely agree the biggest hurdle has been relearning where everything is and how to access it.