idea How to clear\define the coordinate system of a particular layer in catalog of ArcGIS Pro? in ArcGIS Pro Ideas

How to clear\define the coordinate system of a particular layer in catalog of ArcGIS Pro?

JamalNUMAN — Fri, 23 Jul 2021 16:42:10 GMT

How to clear\define the coordinate system of a particular layer in catalog of ArcGIS Pro?

This option appears to be not available in ArcGIS Pro

This idea is already discussed here

How to define the coordinate system of a layer while working in catalog of ArcGIS Pro,

rawan saleh‌, Majdoleen Awadallah‌

Re: How to clear\define the coordinate system of a particular layer in catalog of ArcPro?

KoryKramer — Tue, 20 Aug 2019 13:36:07 GMT

Referencing the discussion that has already been had on this subject here: How to “clear” the coordinate system of the “Map” to get it to “unknown” in ArcGIS Pro,

There was an issue submitted by Technical Support for this and it currently has a status of Not In Current Product Plan with this explanation, "Thanks for submitting this issue. Unfortunately removing the ability to set “none” coordinate system in Pro is a design decision. Having no coordinate system could lead to lots to problems. For example, units will be unknown and map scale is off as well. It’s dangerous to have a map in an unknown state without coordinate system. Features will not draw correctly and sharing map across in platforms will also have problems. Therefore, it’s unlikely that adding <none> option in the coordinate system in map properties page."

Jamal NUMAN‌ you've already provided an explanation on the thread referenced above, for how you use this. For others voting up this idea, please also include how you currently use this functionality. Is it solely for troubleshooting and correcting projection issues?

Re: How to clear\define the coordinate system of a particular layer in catalog of ArcPro?

JamalNUMAN — Tue, 20 Aug 2019 15:02:29 GMT

Precisely. We do use it for troubleshooting. The absence of this tool (clear) makes it difficult to display how layers are plotted with their native coordinate system.

This tool has been existing since ever in ArcMap. We never encountered in issues that is associated with the availability of it.

Re: How to clear\define the coordinate system of a particular layer in catalog of ArcPro?

GregoryLund2 — Wed, 16 Oct 2019 16:54:22 GMT

Jamal, I agree 100%. Jamal NUMAN‌

Kory, I have attempted to explain here further. Kory Kramer

I utilize the 'Clear Projection' as a stop gap measure to ensure that my students see (visually) that their data does not 'line up', and something must be done.

Even with the minutia of differences between very similar coordinate systems, showing, visually that the layers are 'off' helps students understand this seemingly abstract issue of 'Spatial Reference'. Imagine looking at two identical layers of Tacoma, one in UTM Zone 10N, one in WA State Plane HARN South US Feet, one in WA State Plane South US Feet, and another in WA State Plane South Meters. In ArcMap, they seem to line up while... (Projected on the fly), but after clearing the projection... of course... only 2 of the Layers 'Line up' (notice the quotes) but... wait... Under further investigation... our eyes are deceiving us..... . There is a 1 foot (ish) difference between State Plane and State Plane HARN.
The good news is, I can create a video of this, to show students long after ArcMap is a distant memory. While completing this reply, I've realized that this is such a VALUABLE teaching tool, to show new GIS students (TGIS 311, Intro to Maps and GIS" the 'abstract' nature of these confusing things called 'Coordinate Systems, Projections, Transformations, Datums, Ellipsoids etc.

With the Projection of the Data Frame left at 'No Coordinate System', I am sure that ArcMap is using the actual coordinate system of the layers. ESPECIALLY when a layer 'says' it has one coordinate system, when in fact it has been Defined and/or Projected incorrectly.

Try explaining to a new student (Week 4 of Intro to GIS) that "Yes, ArcMap does show that those two layers have the same coordinate system and projection... but... they do not". Being able to SHOW them that, in ArcMap, is a teaching/learning opportunity.

I've taught this way for 9 years, and not one analysis has been destroyed because there was 'No Coordinate System'.

Question... (Kory, or other Esri folks), what if a Layer, with an incorrectly labeled Projection/Coordinate System was added to ArcPro? Would it be projected on the fly to the actual corrupted coordinate system (never never land), or to the incorrectly specified (by name) coordinate system?

btw, this is all RESPECTFULLY submitted, not trying to be a jerk, PNW passive aggressive, etc. 🙂 I'm attempting to explain how I use this feature of ArcMap as a tool for accuracy in my analyses and a teaching tool. I'm trying to learn, and figure out the best way to educate my Undergraduates at the University of Washington Tacoma in the School of Urban Studies (and also making a case for 'bringing the 'clear projection' back. Can it hurt?) 🙂

(Also hoping to hear what exactly ArcPro does... )

Does ArcPro Project on the Fly to the first layer added? I honestly don't know, and am hoping to hear. Also, can it be changed (I haven't used Pro much) as desired? Will ArcPro project to the Actual Coordinate System, a corrupted coordinate system (incorrect due to using incorrect Datum/Defined Projection), or the named (but perhaps inaccurate Defined Projection?

Regards,

Greg

Re: How to clear\define the coordinate system of a particular layer in catalog of ArcPro?

ThomasColson — Tue, 22 Jun 2021 08:58:34 GMT

This option is used in ArcMap when we get data that started off as a CAD dataset, and someone (else) "guessed" at what the projection was, and they were clearly wrong, but we have no idea what the CAD was originally "rotated" to. "Having no coordinate system could lead to lots to problems.". There is no disputing that. And I haven't seen any use cases for folks wanting blindly use unprojected data and make bad maps. There are specific technical troubleshooting situations where the functionality is needed.

(Also appears to be a duplicate of https://community.esri.com/ideas/14262 )

Re: How to clear\define the coordinate system of a particular layer in catalog of ArcPro?

RandyMcGregor_Home — Sat, 25 Apr 2020 11:02:38 GMT

I create cross sections that are feature classes - with routing, events, dynamic segmentatoin etc. in Arcmap I put them in a map frame with no coordinate system defined - just a blank, cartesian space. Would be nice if we could decide for ourselves whether or not to enter a defined coordinate system.

In fact, "Cartesian Grid" would be a wonderful coordinate system option.

Re: How to clear\define the coordinate system of a particular layer in catalog of ArcPro?

GeorgieCassar1 — Tue, 16 Jun 2020 05:41:28 GMT

I have cases where data is provided to me that displays in the wrong place. The provider seems to assign a coord system that is obviously wrong. I like to troubleshoot by clearing the assigned projection and assigning different projections I think it could be. This trial and error helps to correct the problem. It's like doing a 'project' without moving the features.

Re: How to clear\define the coordinate system of a particular layer in catalog of ArcPro?

JamalNUMAN — Tue, 16 Jun 2020 08:46:11 GMT

At the end of the day, we do really need to get this option (clear) available to Pro. In many cases, the absence of this option makes our life hard.

Re: How to clear\define the coordinate system of a particular layer in catalog of ArcPro?

SusanGale1 — Thu, 05 Nov 2020 19:13:11 GMT

I have always cleared the projection in ArcMap while doing visual quality reviews of results from raster analyses. I generally create a random raster that matches the extent of the state I work in to use as a common reference for snapping and extent to ensure that my statewide projects as well as smaller project areas will all align to a common source and therefore be reproducible. Unfortunately, I made an error when creating the most recent reference raster and it looks like it took the projection of the input vector data I used, rather than the projection I selected for my project. I've been having a lot of crashing and unexpected results in my current project, but results seemed to be just fine in my visual reviews (rasters from results were all in the correct projection). I just discovered the error today, and this is the exact type of error I would have caught previously by clearing the projection from the map during my visual reviews -- i.e., misalignments between my reference raster and the rasters from my analyses. And now I have about 6 weeks worth of work to re-run. (Thankfully, almost all of my work is scripted, but will still take some time to re-run the spatial data and then re-analyze the results.) In my case, not being able to clear the projection in the map has actually masked serious issues with my underlying data and actually harmed my data quality, not helped it.

Re: How to clear\define the coordinate system of a particular layer in catalog of ArcGIS Pro?

BradleyThomann — Thu, 30 Dec 2021 17:03:09 GMT

Agree with everyone saying this functionality is needed. I just downloaded a dataset from a county open data site that is clearly in the wrong coordinates. It does not fall in the correct position or with the correct scaling. Without the option to clear the coordinate system I have no way to attempt to fix this file. I think ESRI should include this option in their design. While it's true that no coordinate system can cause problems, this does not account for datasets being projected or assigned coordinate systems incorrectly. Does ESRI provide another option for dealing with incorrectly projected data?

Re: How to clear\define the coordinate system of a particular layer in catalog of ArcGIS Pro?

NeilFordyce — Wed, 02 Feb 2022 04:02:05 GMT

Anyone serious GIS Professional who "believes" in the data fed to them without checking it is a fool.

If critical decisions are being made with spatially located data then you have to be *certain* that the data is located correctly. Removing the projection of the data is the first step in checking for this.

Once I have a data set that I know is *correct* and proven to be so then other data sets are compared to this with projection set to unknown.

I have been using Python for nearly 20 years with Arc and it has no value in solving this problem.

Arcmap -> clear projection on data frame -> clear projection on data -> compare with swipe if using raster.

Re: How to clear\define the coordinate system of a particular layer in catalog of ArcGIS Pro?

SteveIrving — Wed, 04 Jan 2023 18:21:52 GMT

I agree with the comments above as well. Most especially Greg's (@GregoryLund2 ) extremely eloquent reply.

Yet another reason GIS 'Professionals' cannot migrate to "Pro". Any 'professional' version of an application should include ALL previous functionality.

Data is the heart of GIS and the professional user needs to retain absolute control over the details of those data. The 'help' that Pro provides to allow novice users to avoid egregious mistakes is an encumbrance to the professional user. Professionals do not want or need that crutch especially when it makes data qa/qc more difficult than it inherently is or, worse as in this case, impossible.

Re: How to clear\define the coordinate system of a particular layer in catalog of ArcGIS Pro?

WilliamGillman — Wed, 04 Jan 2023 18:46:21 GMT

Agreed - this is the failsafe option for troubleshooting coordinate systems and transformations. Would be good to have it back.

Re: How to clear\define the coordinate system of a particular layer in catalog of ArcGIS Pro?

GregoryLund2 — Wed, 04 Jan 2023 23:06:37 GMT

Happy 2023!
I was happy to receive email notifications that this thread has new comments, and to realize that it is still active.

Wanted to thank @SteveIrving (SteveIrving) for the mention in regards to my post.

Thank you to for August 19, 2019 OP @JamalNUMAN JamalNUMAN

I just re-read my post within this thread from October 16, 2019, and it appears that this issue is the same as it was in 2019.

My students (today) use a combination of ArcDesktop (Map/Catalog etc.) and ArcPro (also 'Desktop' it seems) to accommodate deficiencies in one or the other. While some employers are asking for ArcPro experience and education, I'm still seeing ArcGIS Desktop (Pre-Pro) listed on Job announcements.

Re: How to clear\define the coordinate system of a particular layer in catalog of ArcGIS Pro?

WillAnderson — Wed, 25 Jan 2023 14:26:56 GMT

I respectfully upvote the option to clear in Pro as we could in ArcMap. We regularly get shapefile data exported from farm management software (even from the world's largest tractor manufacturers) with an incorrect projection defined.

Re: How to clear\define the coordinate system of a particular layer in catalog of ArcGIS Pro?

KoryKramer — Wed, 25 Jan 2023 14:46:33 GMT

Thank you for the comment @WillAnderson Please be sure to add a kudo to the idea to increment the count. Thank you!

Re: How to clear\define the coordinate system of a particular layer in catalog of ArcGIS Pro?

WillAnderson — Wed, 25 Jan 2023 15:15:08 GMT

Done!

Re: How to clear\define the coordinate system of a particular layer in catalog of ArcGIS Pro?

GregoryLund2 — Wed, 25 Jan 2023 21:41:44 GMT

@KoryKramer and @WillAnderson Thank you both!
And, side/off topic note, Kory, it's been ~10 years since we met in the UW cohort, right? Time flies!

Re: How to clear\define the coordinate system of a particular layer in catalog of ArcGIS Pro?

CPHSDnelson — Thu, 16 Feb 2023 16:50:20 GMT

Has anyone found a good work around for this issue?

Re: How to clear\define the coordinate system of a particular layer in catalog of ArcGIS Pro?

NeilFordyce — Sat, 18 Feb 2023 00:12:11 GMT

I have been using ESRI products for 30 years and have been a GIS Consultant for 16 years.

I cannot work with ArcGIS PRO unless I also have ArcCatalog 10.8 open on another screen.

All of my clients are told to make sure they have ArcMAP installed as they CANNOT be serious about managing GIS data with PRO alone. None of my clients (which includes large organisation) use ArcGIS Server and day to day work is still File based.

ArcGIS PRO is the way ahead and I do all map creation in it but as for data reviews and management.. forget it.

Desktop 10.8, Python and C# is my only solution.

C# and arcobjects are used to create thumbnails en masse (where is the tool for that), Python to bulk edit metadata fields based on data set name components and Desktop 10 is absolutely vital to assess where data sits when it does not have a project assigned to it.