idea Load Sketch into the Traverse tool without Parcel Fabric/COGO Enable for ArcGIS Pro in ArcGIS Parcel Fabric Ideas

Load Sketch into the Traverse tool without Parcel Fabric/COGO Enable for ArcGIS Pro

Anonymous User — Tue, 23 Nov 2021 14:22:40 GMT

In ArcMap, you can Load Sketch into the COGO Traverse tool and modify the survey calls(Metes and Bounds) of a polygon. It seems there is not an exact way to do that in ArcGIS Pro.

Every documentation keeps pointing to COGO enable this or that or Parcel Fabric. This isn't ideal, I would like to see development team to build that feature into ArcGIS Pro Modify Tool suite.

https://pro.arcgis.com/en/pro-app/latest/help/editing/create-a-traverse.htm

https://www.reddit.com/r/ArcGIS/comments/mblcfz/question_about_arcgis_pro_cogo_traverses/

Re: Load Sketch into the Traverse tool without Parcel Fabric/COGO Enable for ArcGIS Pro

AmirBar-Maor — Tue, 23 Nov 2021 09:29:21 GMT

Hello @Anonymous User ,

The traverse tool is part of the editing Modify tools and it allows you to traverse both polygons and lines.

The reason you are pointed in the documentation to enable the COGO on your lines feature class is that a COGO enabled feature class has the ability to capture the measurements as attributes as well as predefined symbology, labeling and display expression that works well for metes and bounds legal descriptions.

What are the advantages of entering features over a sketch?
Every line you enter is its own feature which means can save your edits halfway through entering a traverse. It also means you can pick it up from where you have left simply by tracing those lines. Having labels can help you identify any entry mistakes early on - another reason to not use a sketch.

If you choose to not use the new parcel fabric, you can use those lines to create a polygon using the 'Construct Polygon' tool (also found in the editing modify tools).

Another option if you want to preserve using polygons: select the polgyon, Copy and paste special into a COGO enabled line feature class, Use the traverse trace to modify it, then Construct from polygon, delete the lines (as you can see - this is not efficient).

Any reason you are not using the new parcel fabric?

How long have you been editing in ArcGIS Pro?

Re: Load Sketch into the Traverse tool without Parcel Fabric/COGO Enable for ArcGIS Pro - Status changed to: Needs Clarification

AmirBar-Maor — Tue, 23 Nov 2021 09:29:33 GMT

Re: Load Sketch into the Traverse tool without Parcel Fabric/COGO Enable for ArcGIS Pro

Anonymous User — Tue, 23 Nov 2021 14:36:05 GMT

I been editing for in AGP for two plus years now. I kept with the updates so having the Traverse tool work both on polyline and now Polygon after 2.73 is wonderful.

The advantage of this Load Sketch and modify survey calls require less steps, flexible, and is straight forward.

In ArcMap the steps are:

1. Go into edit session

2. Select an existing feature

3. Right Click to edit vertices

4. Go to COGO window and right click on the empty area and load sketch

There it would populate the bearing and distance (Survey Calls). I attached a link of the image below and also modify the original post to now have an image attachment to show you the screenshot. There are many GIS analysts that will find this method useful, especially those who work in Real Property, Survey, and Land acquisition.

Why am I not using parcel fabric?

1. I plot a lot of old deeds and use it for research purpose to find ownership. It will not part of a fabric and using parcel fabric for this task is cumbersome.

2. I work for a local government and one reason is our server is on 10.6, Parcel Fabric on AGP 2.8 requires it to be 10.8 to work. We can't upgrade until certain department switches their utility network. My department is one of the few that is using AGP more than ArcMap.

Re: Load Sketch into the Traverse tool without Parcel Fabric/COGO Enable for ArcGIS Pro

AmirBar-Maor — Wed, 24 Nov 2021 08:58:48 GMT

Thanks @Anonymous User for the information.

Are you aware that attempting to load a traverse from a polygon will:

1. Use the Grid (projection) dimensions and not the original ground dimensions?

2. Any misclose that was adjusted between all the traverse courses will be reflected in the inverse dimensions?

3. Any densified curves you might have in your data will appear as many small courses?

About the parcel fabric. If yo are the only one editing it you can also use a file Geodatbase (single user deployment) and not have to wait for other departments to upgrade the enterprise environment. Some additional benefits for you to consider:

1. If you enter a lot of old deeds you will be able to associate each parcel you enter and each boundary to the deeds it came from (regardless if it is now historic or current).

2. You will be able to isolate and see only the features that pertain to that deed/plat (using the Show Only Active Record)

3. Better quality control: easily find topological issues, lines with wrong COGO values, parcels with wrong area etc.

4. All the reasons above to use 'COGO enabled lines' + we also track if the COGO dimension was 'entered', inversed 'from geometry' or 'computed'.

5. Efficiency

6. ...

Re: Load Sketch into the Traverse tool without Parcel Fabric/COGO Enable for ArcGIS Pro

DarylHochhalter — Mon, 06 Nov 2023 20:18:58 GMT

I would just like to add to these comments it would be really nice if you could add similar tools as what was available in Arcmap so that we can all use COGO entries whether implementing a parcel fabric or not. I have used them for years without a parcel fabric and would really like to continue doing so. Obviously, the pro people at ESRI have made the calculation there is some other way to do this by enabling your feature classes, I'm not sure why that is so important to you. Many of us would just like to use the feature without doing that. Also, the load from sketch option is something I've used for years for many different reasons and many different features, from utilities to various parcel layers. Rather then explaining why I want them, could you please explain why ESRI refuses to give the tools we had before?

Because these things are not available in Pro, I still use Arcmap for several editing workflows.

Re: Load Sketch into the Traverse tool without Parcel Fabric/COGO Enable for ArcGIS Pro

AmirBar-Maor — Fri, 08 Dec 2023 15:57:54 GMT

@DarylHochhalter

We are already getting requests to make parcel fabric tools available for non parcel fabric feature. Things like historic parcels and parcel lineage, parcel alignment, COGO type, Highlight Gaps and Overlaps and more + more parcel capabilities to come.

The parcel fabric in Pro uses simple feature classes, so your workflows would not change much, just get more efficient. That said, if you figured out which tools to use for your custom solutions, and it works for you, you can continue to use your custom solution.

We focus on the land records / cadastre industry and are committed to the success of our customers by providing them with the most advanced and efficient technology to do their job. We call it the "parcel fabric".

Re: Load Sketch into the Traverse tool without Parcel Fabric/COGO Enable for ArcGIS Pro - Status changed to: Open

AmirBar-Maor — Thu, 16 May 2024 07:23:22 GMT

Re: Load Sketch into the Traverse tool without Parcel Fabric/COGO Enable for ArcGIS Pro

melisahansen — Thu, 22 Aug 2024 15:34:08 GMT

@AmirBar-Maor our organization also uses the Load traverse from Sketch as it makes our workflows much faster. We are not actively using parcel fabric and do not have plans to just yet. As anonymous user stated, being able to bring in an existing parcel to the traverse tool, is much faster when editing existing parcels.

Currently in Pro, I would have to COGO the entire parcel from scratch, where previously I could just edit the traverses imported. ArcMap, was more flexible and efficient to our workflows. Are there plans to bring this option into Pro?

Re: Load Sketch into the Traverse tool without Parcel Fabric/COGO Enable for ArcGIS Pro

AmirBar-Maor — Thu, 29 Aug 2024 11:11:01 GMT

@melisahansen

We regard any solution that manages parcels outside the parcel fabric as a custom solution. We've made it easy to migrate any data into the parcel fabric and provide additional capabilities to make your parcel maintenance more efficient.
Organizations that want to have their own custom solution can use the rich ArcGIS Pro SDK for their custom workflows.

Another capability we are currently working on to make you more efficient is the capability to OCR deeds and create features (with COGO values). Such capability will be limited to the parcel fabric.

Re: Load Sketch into the Traverse tool without Parcel Fabric/COGO Enable for ArcGIS Pro

MattSund — Wed, 18 Sep 2024 05:47:20 GMT

@AmirBar-Maor we also use the Load traverse from sketch tool.

It is a simple use case - not really a custom workflow.

You traverse a series of survey lines from reference mark to parcel. Sometimes you make an error and you need to edit the data.

In ArcMap this is entirely possible. Select the sketch, open cogo and load traverse from sketch.

Using the trace tool in ArcPro is impractical as there are many overlapping and nearby lines which the trace tool inadvertently follows.

This issue is keeping our editors in ArcMap.

Re: Load Sketch into the Traverse tool without Parcel Fabric/COGO Enable for ArcGIS Pro

AmirBar-Maor — Wed, 18 Sep 2024 10:22:42 GMT

Thanks @MattSund

Are you currently using the parcel fabric?

Are you using COGO Enabled lines in ArcGIS Pro?

If you use the parcel fabric you can select the parcel polygon and then use the parcel select tool to select the boundary lines.

We can also consider improving the 'select by trace' and/or offer another selection method. Would that work?

Re: Load Sketch into the Traverse tool without Parcel Fabric/COGO Enable for ArcGIS Pro

MattSund — Wed, 18 Sep 2024 23:54:33 GMT

Hi @AmirBar-Maor

The most important part of checking the linework is before a polygon is created. You need to do a closed traverse of connections between survey marks and a closed traverse of the parcel.

Some of our survey plans are in a different azimuth and coordinate system, so with ArcMap we can traverse them into a sketch as they appear, adjust for missclose, and then rotate the sketch to account for azimuth.

Next we traverse the survey mark to parcel and ensure the traverse around the parcel closes correctly. When it does not, in ArcMap we can load the sketch into the Cogo tool and correct a mistake with a bearing or distance. (With ArcPro we cannot, because the trace tool runs over the underlying vertex of the original parcel or along the boundary of the neighbouring parcel.)

After this closes we construct the polygon from the correct lines. We do not want to construct a polygon before the lines are correct.

We are not using the fabric, as we have manually drawn a near survey accurate cadastre from one that was 5m wrong. We want to preserve straight lines and do not want stretching applied to our parcels like a fabric might permit.

We do not currently have cogo attributes on the lines

Thank you

Re: Load Sketch into the Traverse tool without Parcel Fabric/COGO Enable for ArcGIS Pro

AmirBar-Maor — Thu, 19 Sep 2024 06:55:34 GMT

@MattSund

The reason organizations adopt the parcel fabric is because they want:

Increase their efficiency
Assess and improve their data quality
Associate all features with the legal record (instrument) they originated from, making the data defendable.
Improve their spatial accuracy
Maintain historic parcels and parcel lineage
...

We would love to help you. You can get in touch with our product manager @DanielStone or with your account manager.

The workflow you describe is a core workflow of starting connection lines from the commencement point to the point of beginning (POB). That accounts for any rotation (aka Basis of bearing) and scale factor. We call that 'ground to grid' correction and this is how to use it.

You can also apply rotation interactivity to a group of lines or a parcel after building it. From your description, I can tell that you close your traverse, which means you are already stretching the geometry to distribute the misclose (using the compass method most likely).
Assuming you stitch new parcels to existing parcels (alignment) you effectively stretch and bend geometries. That is not different from what the parcel fabric does.

We understand that changing from ArcMap to Pro requires adjusting your workflows and it can be challenging.

You can prevent parcel points from moving by simply setting them to fixed. You can easily detect any line that has been stretched or rotated more than you want to allow it.

Your workflow explains why you are currently missing COGO dimensions on your lines which is a shame, because it sounds like you put a lot of effort of creating a nearly survey accurate cadastre, and good COGO values would allow you to run weighted LSA (Least Squares Adjustment) should you decide to evaluate and/or improve your spatial accuracy even further.

Re: Load Sketch into the Traverse tool without Parcel Fabric/COGO Enable for ArcGIS Pro

MattSund — Thu, 19 Sep 2024 07:08:45 GMT

Hi @AmirBar-Maor , thanks for your reply. I have also watched your videos from the Esri UC, very interesting.

We dont stitch new parcels to existing. We enter new parcels from the latest information and decide to readjust the neighbouring parcels based on the observed error and their known accuracies.

At this point we do not want to use the parcel fabric. We are just looking for an equivalent tool to load the sketch into the cogo editor.

Re: Load Sketch into the Traverse tool without Parcel Fabric/COGO Enable for ArcGIS Pro

JasonFuller — Thu, 13 Feb 2025 16:08:45 GMT

So many of the replies here from ESRI are not really addressing the concerns the OP, and many others, have. I have not personally met a single GIS professional who works extensively with large metes and bounds legal descriptions and creates traverses who prefers the ArcPro version of the Traverse tool. Its not a resistance to change and not liking something because it is new. It is simply not as good.

There were a lot of things about the Arcmap tool that were better, faster (Pro version is sooo slow for large traverses), and also not now available in the ArcPro Traverse tool. One specific thing which the OP asked about and others have reiterated more recently is the inability to simply load a traverse from a sketch. Instead of saying yes we understand this was a really useful feature that has no downside and we should work to add it to Pro instead I always see comments from ESRI about using the Trace feature (not helpful) or change to Parcel Fabric (a major undertaking as a work around for what seemed a very simple functionality in Arcmap). It is clear ESRI wants to push everyone to the parcel fabric but not everyone has the resources, time, or desire to change to Parcel Fabric right now.

Also why is it that in ArcPro when you create a traverse with Line features it does not create them as a sketch (it did in Arcmap) but it does create as a sketch when you create a Traverse on a Polygon? Just another functionality of the Arcmap Traverse tool that changed in Pro and does not seem to add any benefit.

If ESRI created a traverse tool that was similar to the Arcmap version and gave people a choice in Pro I really doubt many people would choose the existing ArcPro version. There are some nice improvements with parts of the pro traverse tool but I think putting some effort in adding some of these functionalities that existed in the Arcmap Version (like loading a traverse from sketch) would be welcomed by the GIS community who have to use these tools frequently on a daily basis.

Re: Load Sketch into the Traverse tool without Parcel Fabric/COGO Enable for ArcGIS Pro

AmirBar-Maor — Thu, 13 Feb 2025 17:00:06 GMT

@JasonFuller

We appreciate your candid and direct feedback.

When we developed the traverse tool in ArcGIS Pro we had to choose between 2 ArcMap traverse tools as well as the ArcInfo way.
From your perspective, it seems like we chose the wrong one. We understand that the ArcMap COGO Traverse tool is more explicit and relies on fewer key shortcuts, but it also suffers from:

Required a lot of mouse clicks, which is not efficient
Requires 2 hands
If the app crashed or you forgot to create the features you would lose your work.

We have plans to develop something more explicit for those who want more explicit UI and a sketch, but that is not high on the priority list.

If you see performance issues for creating issues, we recommend that you look into them regardless of the traverse tool.

Migrating to the parcel fabric is actually easy. Where do you see the challenges?

How can we make traverse data entry easier? it's not by trying to improve your data entry speed but by eliminating the need to enter them. In the 'near term' we will release 'COGO Reader'. A tool that uses OCR and extracts all the courses from your deed.

It will be part of the parcel fabric functionality and will focus on US deeds containing 'metes' descriptions.

Re: Load Sketch into the Traverse tool without Parcel Fabric/COGO Enable for ArcGIS Pro

DarylHochhalter — Thu, 13 Feb 2025 17:52:20 GMT

I'm thinking the issue here is that the parcel fabric and associated tools could eventually become an addon license. ESRI doesn't see benefit including the functionality we're all suggesting here. We are simply looking for a way to edit the length and direction of existing line features, which is what the load from sketch offered in ArcMap. Although OCR for deeds might be useful in some cases, it won't eliminate the need for this functionality.

I think to most of us it's really a totally separate issue from the parcel fabric. I use COGO entries for features that wouldn't ever be included in a fabric, with descriptions that come from all kinds of documentation. I'm just sorry it's a low priority. I started using Pro for as many things as possible 5 years ago. It is a much improved application overall, but the attitude toward many suggestions seems to be that we should adapt to how you think we should do the tasks we have. I can remember talking to developers from ESRI several years ago regarding replicas and getting the same kind of response, why use them at all, do it this way. At one point, Pro had the ability to create replicas in a different coordinate system then the parent data, but didn't have that environment setting for the sync tool, ha!

My point is that it is complicated software used by lots of different people for lots of different tasks. User feedback has been integral to ESRI software development and widespread adoption of the many changes over the years, almost 30 for me.

Re: Load Sketch into the Traverse tool without Parcel Fabric/COGO Enable for ArcGIS Pro

JasonFuller — Thu, 13 Feb 2025 18:15:28 GMT

Thank you for responding.

I understand those 3 considerations. I just feel that perhaps some of those gains could have been realized without losing some of the features, like loading traverse from sketch which is mainly what this thread is about. I think in some instances ESRI has updated the functionality of the Pro tool from when it was first introduced based to be better based on user responses (like exporting traverses which was not there initially) so hopefully this is something that continues to evolve.

I am glad that ESRI is looking into an OCR to Traverse tool, there was a custom add-on one for Arcmap floating around many years ago that was pretty useful before it fell behind version updates. However I have not seen too many OCR programs that do not occasionally misinterpret older deeds so those traverses will often have to be checked and updated which always seemed easier as a sketch but I will happily look forward to whatever you guys come up with. Unless its just for people who use Parcel Fabric which would be disappointing.

I will add though that Migrating to Parcel Fabric may be easier now from a data perspective than the Arcmap version but there are certainly some business process and retraining considerations that I would argue are not "easy" for small staffs on tight budgets/timelines to simply just do but that is a different issue altogether. Thanks again for your feedback and quick response.

Re: Load Sketch into the Traverse tool without Parcel Fabric/COGO Enable for ArcGIS Pro

AmirBar-Maor — Fri, 14 Feb 2025 07:16:43 GMT

@JasonFuller would you be willing to meet with us to further discuss?
If yes - please send a direct message.