idea Traverse Tool to Use Azimuth Types in ArcGIS Parcel Fabric Ideas

Traverse Tool to Use Azimuth Types

MikeZummo — Mon, 10 May 2021 18:22:36 GMT

Hi There,

Currently different Azimuth types (Grid, Rhumb Line, Forward/Mean/Reverse Geodetic) for COGO lines are supported when using the Two-Point line tool. From the testing I have completed so far, these direction types seem to be working quite well and make a huge difference when entering lines from survey plats that show mean geodetic bearings. I think it would be great if these Azimuth types could be supported when using the Traverse tool.

Thanks,

Mike Z

@TimHodson

@AmirBar-Maor

Re: Traverse Tool to Use Azimuth Types

joshuaforeman — Thu, 13 May 2021 17:40:17 GMT

I agree, adding this functionality to the Traverse Tool would drastically decrease data entry times and minimize errors with hand entering numerous line courses. Thanks @MikeZummo

Re: Traverse Tool to Use Azimuth Types

AmirBar-Maor — Mon, 17 May 2021 07:26:46 GMT

@joshuaforeman

So far the only organization we know of that uses true mean bearing is BLM.

We would like to know if anyone else is using it.

Do you also work for/with BLM?

Thanks,

Amir

Re: Traverse Tool to Use Azimuth Types

LucasBeauchamp — Wed, 19 May 2021 16:35:38 GMT

I strongly endorse this idea as well.

Re: Traverse Tool to Use Azimuth Types

JeffSwann — Wed, 19 May 2021 16:54:41 GMT

I 100% need this tool.

Re: Traverse Tool to Use Azimuth Types

MonteKing — Wed, 19 May 2021 20:58:39 GMT

The tool would be of great use to many in the GCDB/cadNSDI world! Thank you @MikeZummo

Re: Traverse Tool to Use Azimuth Types

AmirBar-Maor — Thu, 20 May 2021 07:23:27 GMT

Would anyone use it outside of CadNSDI (PLSS - US Public Land Survey System)?

@MikeZummo

When you are entering a 'true mean bearing' direction, do you also have the turning points? meaning - do you have the point and coordinates at the line extremities that you would need to snap to?

@nancyvonmeyer what is your take on the use of true mean bearing on BLM plats?

Are they really observed using theodolites in the 21 century? or inversed from GNSS?

Re: Traverse Tool to Use Azimuth Types

MonteKing — Thu, 20 May 2021 14:40:21 GMT

@AmirBar-Maor

I am not sure anyone outside of PLSS world would utilize the tool except the BLM does still execute surveys in M&B states reporting bearings as true so there is a slim chance folks in M&B states would use it.

We typically use geodetic (GNSS inverse) but many surveys are not GNSS friendly so we still use conventional total stations utilizing astronomic/true bearings from celestial observations(Polaris or Sun). The geodetic vs astronomic/true is minimal difference for the most part therefore they are typically interchanged.

For an interesting read if not already done so see Jerry Wahl's paper on PLSS datum at the below link

http://www.cadastral.com/cad-datm.htm

Re: Traverse Tool to Use Azimuth Types

AmirBar-Maor — Fri, 21 May 2021 07:39:34 GMT

@MonteKing

Thanks for the input.

So far we know that anyone that maintains PLSS would be using it (BLM, state custodians, BIA, USFS) but we were trying to understand if there is anyone else.

Local governments in the US usually survey the physical section corners using high accuracy GNSS and have never expressed interest in other direction types.

However, all customers need to be able to enter historic information that uses the old survey technics before the total station era.

Thanks for sharing Jerry's Wahl paper. IMHO it would be great if every PLSS monument was surveyed using survey-grade GNSS and its coordinates, epoch, and accuracy published for the next generations. Some PLSS custodians are more progressive and some are more traditional. Some accept surveys from other agencies and some only trust their own surveyors.

Maybe such a discussion is better suited for this group: https://community.esri.com/t5/plss-editing/gh-p/plss-editing

Re: Traverse Tool to Use Azimuth Types

Cal_Norton — Mon, 24 May 2021 15:26:44 GMT

I support Mike Zummo, the traverse tool needs to include azimuth types.

Re: Traverse Tool to Use Azimuth Types - Status changed to: In Product Plan

AmirBar-Maor — Tue, 07 Nov 2023 11:05:06 GMT

Will be implemented with ArcGIS pro 3.3

Re: Traverse Tool to Use Azimuth Types - Status changed to: In Product Plan

MikeZummo — Tue, 07 Nov 2023 15:47:47 GMT

Thank you!
Thank you!
Thank you!
Thank you!
Thank you!
Thank you!
Thank you!
Thank you!
Thank you!

Re: Traverse Tool to Use Azimuth Types

LucasBeauchamp — Tue, 07 Nov 2023 16:47:13 GMT

Fantastic news. Thanks!

Re: Traverse Tool to Use Azimuth Types - Status changed to: In Product Plan

joshuaforeman — Tue, 07 Nov 2023 17:00:47 GMT

Amir,

This will greatly benefit our work. Thank you so much for making this a reality!

Re: Traverse Tool to Use Azimuth Types

AmirBar-Maor — Wed, 08 Nov 2023 12:23:25 GMT

Kudos to the entire parcel fabric team

Re: Traverse Tool to Use Azimuth Types

Hedstrom_Jeff — Fri, 29 Dec 2023 23:23:48 GMT

@AmirBar-Maorthis is fantastic news! I see the LS adjustment tool now supports azimuth type as well with 3.2. Though there may not be a ton of use for this outside of PLSS editing environment (though it appears there is from above), PLSS management is an important piece of managing the cadastral framework. Many of us associated/partnered with BLM appreciate this addition very much!!

Happy holidays!!

Re: Traverse Tool to Use Azimuth Types

AmirBar-Maor — Tue, 02 Jan 2024 09:26:29 GMT

Thanks all for the enthusiastic reactions.

IMHO, the support for the geodetic directions is needed for old survey documents. How old? before GNSS in which theodolites were used to establish them. However, it puzzles me to see surveyors use geodetic GNSS receivers, perform highly accurate static measurements to extract coordinates, and then convert those measurements (inverse) to geodetic "measurement". IMHO it just adds unnecessary complexity and you lose important metadata about the original measurements. With the move to dynamic reference frames (datum) perhaps this should be looked into... such historic document could fit nicely next to the theodolite in the display cabinet 😉

Re: Traverse Tool to Use Azimuth Types - Status changed to: Implemented

AmirBar-Maor — Tue, 12 Mar 2024 16:00:32 GMT

Implemented in ArcGIS Pro 3.3

Re: Traverse Tool to Use Azimuth Types

LucasBeauchamp — Tue, 12 Mar 2024 16:36:38 GMT

Excellent. Thanks!

Re: Traverse Tool to Use Azimuth Types

joshuaforeman — Tue, 12 Mar 2024 20:41:56 GMT

Amir,

Again, much appreciated!

We can't wait to use this tool to digitize 30+ pages of bearings and distances (20+ miles of shoreline) geodetically.

This 2019 Plat and Field notes are a great example.

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://sdms.ak.blm.gov/scanned_images_temp/TWP_U0080N0190E_03122024123434.pdf