topic Re: Using ArcGIS for Windows Mobile with the Windows sensor/location API in ArcGIS for Windows Mobile Questions

Using ArcGIS for Windows Mobile with the Windows sensor/location API

TimWroblewski2 — Tue, 15 Jan 2013 10:24:51 GMT

Hi,

A client has recently purchased a new Windows 8 Dell Latitude 10 tablet to use ArcGIS for Windows Mobile on. Now I know that strictly speaking the official line is that ArcGIS for Windows Mobile is not supported on Windows 8 at present. However, we have it up and running on another client's tablet also running Windows 8. The difference between these two devices is the GPS configuration:-

The device we have it working on is using an external GPS plugged in via USB which is being connected to by ArcGIS for Windows Mobile using a virtual COM port.

The new tablet from Dell has a built in Broadcom GNSS location sensor with GPS capabilities. However, it is configured to work with the OS via the Windows sensor/location (Not sure which one) API and as such, is not visible to the ArcGIS for Windows Mobile application which requires a COM port to connect to a GPS.

I guess I have two questions:-

Has anyone mangaged to get ArcGIS for Windows Mobile to connect to a GPS using the Windows sensor/location API?

If not, then does anyone know how to create a virtual COM port which relays the data from the built-in Broadcom GNSS location sensor via the Windows sensor/location API?

I really appreciate any time that people are able to put towards helping me out! I'm a little but stuck!

Thanks,

Tim

Re: Using ArcGIS for Windows Mobile with the Windows sensor/location API

KenSenter — Thu, 31 Jan 2013 13:20:45 GMT

We're wondering this too. We just bought a Dell Latitude 10 Tablet specifically to use ArcPad on it and we haven't been able to get it to work so far. I'm really confused right now whether it's a problem with the specific device in the tablet, the Broadcom BCM47511 GPS, or whether it's due to the way Windows 8 handles GPS devices.

Based on this it sounds like it's because Windows 8 has changed the way GPS is used to go through an API:
http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/wdk/thread/c83dd941-0e03-448c-a438-33c573a6a22d

But here you can see that they claim ArcPad and Windows 8 are "a beautiful marriage":
http://arcpadteam.blogspot.com/2013/01/arcpad-windows-8-beautiful-marriage.html

But then in the comments of that blog post you can see that people aren't having much luck getting it to work...

Can someone help clear up what the problem is and whether there is likely to be a solution. We're trying to decide whether to return the tablet...

Thanks so much!

Re: Using ArcGIS for Windows Mobile with the Windows sensor/location API

DeniseKing — Fri, 01 Feb 2013 11:36:04 GMT

All,

Esri doesn't currently have Dell Latitude 10 tablet to test GPS connectivity within ArcPad or ArcGIS for Windows Mobile applications yet a test unit is on the way and we hope to test these reported behaviors as well as pre-established ArcGIS standard testing scenarios.

Furthermore, Esri Support has actively researched these reports and found recent additions to Dell's Driver Download site including Dell BIOS uploaded 2/1/2013 and Dell Driver for Broadcom BCM47511 Standalone GPS Solution
http://www.dell.com/support/drivers/us/en/04/DriverDetails/Product/latitude-10-tablet?driverId=P0P15&osCode=W832&fileId=3094635676 and then follow the instructions in Dell Support article #117682: Set Up, Use & Troubleshooting GPS Using the Dell Location & GPS Utility (unsure if this helps your situation, but need someone w/Latitude 10 tablet to test and report findings).

Recommend Dell Latitude 10 tablet owners visit Dell Drivers & Downloads and install applicable driver updates after determining updated driver is needed from steps in Dell Support Document #266495: How to get the Latest Driver Updates for your Dell. Suggest subscribing to Dell Technical Emails via Dell Driver Download Manager FAQs for latest updates.

Please follow this post for more information,
Denise

Re: Using ArcGIS for Windows Mobile with the Windows sensor/location API

DeniseKing — Fri, 01 Feb 2013 12:02:54 GMT

Additionally, I should have stated that this is a hardware issue and normally falls to the hardware manufacturer (Dell) to provide the fix, typically as a driver which is why I'm hoping my previous post to the GPS standalone driver download helps to resolve this issue for Dell Latitude 10 tablet owners; see GPS receiver�??s manual for information on how to set the output GPS protocol and port communication parameters on the GPS receiver. It's not a software issue as both ArcPad and ArcGIS for Windows Mobile simply use the same GPS communication parameters set on your GPS receiver. However, Esri's Mobile & Support Teams want to assist Dell Latitude 10 tablet owners in being able to run ArcPad & ArcGIS for Windows Mobile with complete GPS functionality.

Denise

Re: Using ArcGIS for Windows Mobile with the Windows sensor/location API

AndrewSanchez_Meador — Sat, 02 Feb 2013 20:20:29 GMT

So I'm the person from Northern Arizona University that posted on the Arcpad blog and I'm still looking/hoping for a solution for this... as these tablets are pretty sweet.

and Denise, My bios is up to date, I've downloaded the "standalone solution" and followed the instructions included in the .zip file (repeatedly) and have yet to get this GPS to be recognized by ArcPad. I've also combed Broadcom's website for a manual and have yet to find one, there or on the internet in general. So for now, I guess that means changing the output GPS protocol and port communication parameters is a no go.

However, I have been able to write code that can play nice with the geolocator api in vb.net, c++ and c# and have even been able to build examples that log data to a text file. Not elegant and I would never put it in the hands of my students, but it gets the job done and was a simple proof of concept.

Andrew

Re: Using ArcGIS for Windows Mobile with the Windows sensor/location API

AndrewSanchez_Meador — Sun, 03 Feb 2013 14:23:33 GMT

A couple of additional thoughts.. I've tested a few external GPS units with the Latitude 10 and ArcPad via the one USB port on the device and Bluetooth, and they work great.

As I see it, this is not an issue with traditional GPS devices but rather one associated with the way newer devices (tablets, phones, etc) have integrated gps into their hardware.

To me, it seems to be one of two solutions: a) Dell or Broadcom needs to provide a user-level device driver (UMDF) that will allow sensor api-dependent gps receivers to pass their NMEA stream to a port, so these integrated GNSS or GPS devices will work as other, more traditional (ie.d, port-based) devices or b) ArcPad needs to be able to look for devices on ports and the sensor API. Michael Chourdakis' TurboGPS has a good example of how this might work under it's GPS setup where can set the application up to use either com ports or the sensor API. For me , that's just another (albeit great) piece of software...

Re: Using ArcGIS for Windows Mobile with the Windows sensor/location API

DeniseKing — Mon, 04 Feb 2013 15:26:01 GMT

Andrew,

Thank you for the updated information and was sorry to hear the Broadcom standalone GPS didn't help to resolve the issue. Have you contacted Dell Support to ask if they have method of supporting COM port? You are correct in that Dell or Broadcom will need to provide Latitude 10 tablet customers with UMDF allowing Sensor API dependent GPS receivers to pass their NMEA stream to a COM port so that customers can configure the integrated GPS receiver with ArcGIS for Windows Mobile or ArcPad applications. This is because both the GPS library in the Runtime SDK for ArcGIS for Windows Mobile only supports NMEA GPS protocol and reads and parses GPS positions from a connected COM port. The COM port can be a physical serial port, a virtual COM port bound to a GPS receiver via Bluetooth or USB, or a program COM port attached to a GPS intermediate driver on Windows Mobile devices (on Windows Mobile 5.0 & newer systems).

Esri Support and Mobile Teams will continue to test as resources permit and provide our test findings here. We highly encourage anyone encountering this roadblock to contact Dell and Broadcom Support for further assistance and request they provide UMDF GPS Driver for Latitude 10 tablets.

Thank you,
Denise

Re: Using ArcGIS for Windows Mobile with the Windows sensor/location API

NickKopczyk1 — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 19:35:24 GMT

Hi All,

We're experiencing this same problem (as are many others using legacy GPS/mapping software on Win 😎 with our new Lenovo thinkpad Tablet 2's. Broadcom/Dell/Lenovo should be writing this bridge for legacy software (GNSS sensor to NMEA COM) but the mfgr's are simply following Window's guidance for handling location data. I can launch the "Maps App" and the "weather App" from the home screen and both pick up my location immediately. This says to me that an update to ArcPad is needed to bring the new Windows standard Location services into ArcPad. This is needed badly as we are ready to recommend this new approach to clients. I'm checking on broadcom drivers for windows 7 (if they exist) as a possible workaround. Looking forward to a fix.

Re: Using ArcGIS for Windows Mobile with the Windows sensor/location API

AndrewSanchez_Meador — Fri, 08 Feb 2013 14:23:21 GMT

As requested, I had "our people talk to their people" and the response (slightly paraphrased) from Dell was...

"Unfortunately this is a limitation of Windows 8 �?? it doesn't allow access to COM ports. This means that legacy applications that rely on this access will not work.�?� - awesome...

The microsoft rep responding in this post seems to confirm Dell's assessment:
http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/wdk/thread/c83dd941-0e03-448c-a438-33c573a6a22d/

At this point and unless told otherwise, I feel like I've exhausted all my options. The one last thing I may try (as suggested in that post) is I may just ask our IT folks to put our Win7 image on it and see where that takes me...

As always, I'll keep everyone in the loop.

Andrew

Re: Using ArcGIS for Windows Mobile with the Windows sensor/location API

KenSenter — Fri, 08 Feb 2013 14:56:14 GMT

"Unfortunately this is a limitation of Windows 8 �?? it doesn't allow access to COM ports. This means that legacy applications that rely on this access will not work.�?� - awesome...

This is actually not true for Windows 8, only Windows RT. See this thread:
http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/wdk/thread/b2924065-1627-400d-9b81-6990c53e1652/

We are currently using a bluetooth connected GPS on our Latitude 10 and it works just fine via a virtual com port.

Edit: I should add that it also affects Windows 8's metro apps, they can't access com ports either, but desktop apps still can.

Re: Using ArcGIS for Windows Mobile with the Windows sensor/location API

AndrewSanchez_Meador — Fri, 08 Feb 2013 15:53:38 GMT

That's great to know, but I'm not sure it moves us any closer to a solution. It's already been established that devices that connect via "physical serial port, a virtual COM port bound to a GPS receiver via Bluetooth or USB, or a program COM port attached to a GPS intermediate driver on Windows Mobile devices (on Windows Mobile 5.0 & newer systems)" work fine, as they interact with the ESRI's GPS library in the expected fashion. The focus here (based on the original post) is these integrated devices that utilize direct calls to the Location API...

We for one, bought the tablet because it has an internal reciever and the prospect of connecting anything external somewhat defeats the purpose...

Re: Using ArcGIS for Windows Mobile with the Windows sensor/location API

NickKopczyk1 — Fri, 08 Feb 2013 16:36:02 GMT

Agree completely with buying tablets because of internal GPS.

After some searching it looks like there are several products out there that pull the GPS COM into Windows location service. There are none that do the opposite. I've talked to a developer friend who seems to think it's possible to dump the NMEA string from the location service into a virtual COM. We may have to pay for a custom solution on this. I'll update if it is resolved.

On the other hand looking at some "updated" legacy GPS programs on Windows 8 there are solutions to hook into this data. See TurboGPS for windows. After insall you can connect via "windows API" checkbox. I don't see how this isn't possible through a patch in ArcPAD/Mobile 10 from ESRI's side.

For now we'll be having to use BT or USB GPS devices.... Frusterating.

Re: Using ArcGIS for Windows Mobile with the Windows sensor/location API

KenSenter — Fri, 08 Feb 2013 17:08:00 GMT

That's great to know, but I'm not sure it moves us any closer to a solution. It's already been established that devices that connect via "physical serial port, a virtual COM port bound to a GPS receiver via Bluetooth or USB, or a program COM port attached to a GPS intermediate driver on Windows Mobile devices (on Windows Mobile 5.0 & newer systems)" work fine, as they interact with the ESRI's GPS library in the expected fashion. The focus here (based on the original post) is these integrated devices that utilize direct calls to the Location API...

We for one, bought the tablet because it has an internal reciever and the prospect of connecting anything external somewhat defeats the purpose...

Agreed. I was just pointing out that Dell's response is inaccurate. They (or Broadcom) could supply a driver that uses a virtual Com port, Windows 8 doesn't prevent them from doing so.

Re: Using ArcGIS for Windows Mobile with the Windows sensor/location API

DeniseKing — Sat, 09 Feb 2013 15:28:07 GMT

Esri Support and Mobile GIS Teams will soon have Dell Latitude 10 and Lenovo Thinkpad 2 tablets onsite for our own testing of these reported issues. Yet, I've been This is actually not true for Windows 8, only Windows RT. In the meantime, please see these updated Microsoft Forum thread on GPS & COM ports: http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/w8itprohardware/thread/3f8e22a0-52bc-431b-a901-292096b46131

Please continue to update your findings as Esri is greatly interested in these new Windows 8 Pro challenges ArcPad and ArcGIS for Windows Mobile users have encountered.

Thank you,
Denise

Re: Using ArcGIS for Windows Mobile with the Windows sensor/location API

TimWroblewski2 — Mon, 11 Feb 2013 15:06:30 GMT

Hi,

Its great to see others are having the same issues with their Dell Latitude tablets and that its not just me. I don't have any further updates to the situation other than that I've had similar responses from Dell and ESRI to others on here. Any updates from you Denise on the time frame we can expect to get a working copy of ArcGIS for Windows Mobile with Windows 8 and these new GPS chips would be great.

Many thanks,

Tim

Re: Using ArcGIS for Windows Mobile with the Windows sensor/location API

DeniseKing — Tue, 12 Feb 2013 18:30:41 GMT

Esri Support update on Lenovo ThinkPad 2 Windows 8 Pro OS testing:

there are 2 diff models of Lenovo ThinkPad 2 Win 8 Pro tablets - one w/GPS & Mobile broadband & one without
[ATTACH=CONFIG]21723[/ATTACH]

[TABLE="width: 960"][TD="class: padcell ttcell"]Esri Support has both models & you can see in screenshots of expanded Device Manager list that GPS model on left includes Ports (COM & LPT) as we specified during purchasing ThinkPad 2 tablet we needed integrated GPS
* Sierra Wireless Gobi NMEA GPS connection on COM4
[ATTACH=CONFIG]21724[/ATTACH]
also listed in Device Manager is Sensors including Broadcom GNSS Gelocation Sensor yet Esri Support hasn't performed testing or further research into Sensors yet

screenshot below is 2nd ThinkPad 2 tablet we have which doesn't include integrated GPS which is what I expect many of you have as well & which is likely reason you are unable to connect to GPS functionality within ArcPad or ArcGIS for Windows Mobile applications as both ArcPad and ArcGIS for Windows Mobile both state in documentation they require COM port to connect to GPS functionality.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]21725[/ATTACH][/TD]
[TD="class: padcell ttcell"][/TD]

[/TABLE]

found similar reports with other GPS software applications & variety of Win 8 Pro tablets, see http://forums.toshiba.com/t5/Satellite-Laptops-all-other/How-to-get-GPS-working-on-Satellite-U925t/td-p/346208

Will continue to update with ArcPad & ArcGIS for Windows Mobile testing going forward, as time permits.
Denise

linking to related ArcPad Forum thread on similar topic - http://forums.arcgis.com/threads/77053-ArcPad-10.x-on-Microsoft-Surface?p=276143#post276143

Re: Using ArcGIS for Windows Mobile with the Windows sensor/location API

FredericPelletier — Wed, 13 Feb 2013 11:38:59 GMT

Hi,

Since a COM Port is available on the model with "integrated GPS" option, I understand that ArcGIS and ArcPad will works.

There a few tools on the market that supports redirecting NMEA stream to any kind of ports (physical, virtual, TCP/IP), GPSGate (Franson) is a example (great tool !).

Is there any plan on ESRI roadmap to make ArcPad or Mobile compatible with at least a TCP/IP port or ideally implement the support for the new GeoLocation API (Microsoft)?

Regards

Frederic

Re: Using ArcGIS for Windows Mobile with the Windows sensor/location API

NickKopczyk1 — Wed, 13 Feb 2013 16:31:46 GMT

Denise,

My apologies in terms of wasting your time on this "problem". As it turns out this broadcom chip in my Lenovo does not acually have a true GPS function as you stated. It instead has a location determined through Wifi that only works while connected. I only determined this by leaving any wifi connectivity. I have the non-broadband version of the tablet. That said, Lenovo is pushing this tablet as having GPS with no qualifiers or explanations. I had a long conversation with Lenovo about the problem with the way they were stating their specifications. Needless to say I'm walking away unhappy. I think I should mention as well that the Dell has the same chipset and likely has the same problem with their terminology. The dell owners may be stuck as I am with a device that won't do what is claimed. Thanks for the investigation and sorry again about the confusion caused by Lenovo.

Re: Using ArcGIS for Windows Mobile with the Windows sensor/location API

KenSenter — Thu, 14 Feb 2013 13:09:41 GMT

Denise,

My apologies in terms of wasting your time on this "problem". As it turns out this broadcom chip in my Lenovo does not acually have a true GPS function as you stated. It instead has a location determined through Wifi that only works while connected. I only determined this by leaving any wifi connectivity. I have the non-broadband version of the tablet. That said, Lenovo is pushing this tablet as having GPS with no qualifiers or explanations. I had a long conversation with Lenovo about the problem with the way they were stating their specifications. Needless to say I'm walking away unhappy. I think I should mention as well that the Dell has the same chipset and likely has the same problem with their terminology. The dell owners may be stuck as I am with a device that won't do what is claimed. Thanks for the investigation and sorry again about the confusion caused by Lenovo.

I don't know what chip your lenovo came with, but the BCM47511 which is in the Dell is true GPS. From Broadcom's website:
"The BCM47511 is the latest generation of standalone GPS SoC solutions, adding GLONASS functionality, while remaining pin-compatible to the BCM4751 GPS SoC solution. The Broadcom® BCM47511 standalone GPS receiver and the Broadcom BCM2076 combo receiver with Bluetooth and an FM tuner feature dual constellation support of both GPS and GLONASS satellites. BCM47511 GPS receivers will have the ability to use an additional 21 GLONASS satellites currently (24 projected in the future), on top of the existing 30 U.S. GPS satellites, nearly doubling the number of satellites that can be used for navigation. In urban areas, many GPS satellites are blocked by buildings, so the additional 21 satellites offered by the GLONASS system will provide significant improvements in location performance and accuracy over currently available GPS receivers. The BCM47511 SoC solution is Broadcom's latest generation of standalone receiver, featuring both integrated GPS and GLONASS. Since it is pin-for-pin compatible with Broadcom's popular BCM4751 SoC solution, customers can quickly upgrade their products to include GLONASS navigation support."

Speaking of which, I was digging through the driver from the Dell website and I noticed references to the BCM4751 and a driver called BcmGnssBus.sys which it says: BcmGnssBus.sys - ACPI/UART&GPIO Driver wrapper exposes ACPI/UART driver
as COM22 for BcmGnss.dll
Which to me sounds promising, but unfortunately I can't get my hands on the tablet. The guys using it need it every day. So I can't mess around with it anymore.

Re: Using ArcGIS for Windows Mobile with the Windows sensor/location API

NickKopczyk1 — Thu, 14 Feb 2013 13:35:14 GMT

I don't know what chip your lenovo came with, but the BCM47511 which is in the Dell is true GPS. From Broadcom's website:
"The BCM47511 is the latest generation of standalone GPS SoC solutions, adding GLONASS functionality, while remaining pin-compatible to the BCM4751 GPS SoC solution. The Broadcom® BCM47511 standalone GPS receiver and the Broadcom BCM2076 combo receiver with Bluetooth and an FM tuner feature dual constellation support of both GPS and GLONASS satellites. BCM47511 GPS receivers will have the ability to use an additional 21 GLONASS satellites currently (24 projected in the future), on top of the existing 30 U.S. GPS satellites, nearly doubling the number of satellites that can be used for navigation. In urban areas, many GPS satellites are blocked by buildings, so the additional 21 satellites offered by the GLONASS system will provide significant improvements in location performance and accuracy over currently available GPS receivers. The BCM47511 SoC solution is Broadcom's latest generation of standalone receiver, featuring both integrated GPS and GLONASS. Since it is pin-for-pin compatible with Broadcom's popular BCM4751 SoC solution, customers can quickly upgrade their products to include GLONASS navigation support."

Speaking of which, I was digging through the driver from the Dell website and I noticed references to the BCM4751 and a driver called BcmGnssBus.sys which it says: BcmGnssBus.sys - ACPI/UART&GPIO Driver wrapper exposes ACPI/UART driver
as COM22 for BcmGnss.dll
Which to me sounds promising, but unfortunately I can't get my hands on the tablet. The guys using it need it every day. So I can't mess around with it anymore.

The lenovo does indeed have the BCM47511 and I did review the info on Broadcom's site. The only thing I can think is that the chip is a mediator betweeen the BCM4751 (no extra 1) and the system. Meaning the BCM4751 (GPS) is compatible but the BCM47511 does not actually catch the signal. I'm still in talks with Lenovo about the actual capability of this device. There is a possibility that I have a version that was shipped with a bad antenna but i'm thinking that's a slim possibility. I'll update as I learn more. Thanks for the input.