topic Re: Collect Orthometric Height in Field Maps and Projected Coordinate Systems in Field Maps in ArcGIS Field Maps Questions

Collect Orthometric Height in Field Maps and Projected Coordinate Systems in Field Maps

BrandonWotachek — Tue, 29 Jun 2021 21:14:03 GMT

Has anyone "cracked the code" on how to get the orthometric height attribute exported from a point feature collected in Field Maps? I have read articles high and low on this subject but cannot figure out a successful way to get this to work. I have seen some post and articles but the solutions are pages long. This should be an easy out of the box solution/option. I am using an external GPS receiver and would like to record Z-values in NAVD1988(ft). I see it records Altitude as ellipsoidal height, but I do not want that, nor can I think of why anyone recording Z-value would want that over orthometric height. Additionally, I cannot get Field Maps to take a coordinate system other than WGS84, which I think would help me in recording orthometric height. I can create another one in my profile within Field Maps, but in order to use the the esri "canned basemaps that you must have your project set-up to WGS84. I have attempted to create my own simple basemap in my desired projection and bring that into Field Maps, but have had no luck, FieldMaps still says the map and profile coordinate system do not match. Basemaps in ArcMap can be projected on the fly, why not in Field Maps? For a new field collection app, Field Maps seems like it is not ready for "Prime Time". I have other issues I could list, but I have found work arounds for those. I would really like to use esri for a field collection app, but may need to go to another companies app. From a user who has been using Trimble TerraSync, Field Maps does not have near the functionality of TerraSync. Granted TerraSync is now a software dinosaur, but has great functions and options for collection.

Re: Collect Orthometric Height in Field Maps and Projected Coordinate Systems in Field Maps

ThomasHoman — Tue, 29 Jun 2021 22:02:43 GMT

Hi Brandon,

Have you checked out the requirements for high accuracy FieldMaps use? https://doc.arcgis.com/en/field-maps/ios/help/high-accuracy-data-collection.htm

From what I am seeing, FieldMaps only uses the GPS ellipsoid height and has no knowledge of the geoid model concept, or the ability to apply it, to get to Orthometric height so must be handled in post collection processing and are very specific to the area you are working in. In the US the NGS handles is the caretake of the US data https://geodesy.noaa.gov/GEOID/ with others responsible for their respective jurisdictions.

TerraSync, being a Trimble product and an extension of their survey history, probably has full knowledge of the various geoid models out there and can apply them to field measurements. I still use Trimble TSC2's for field work and when setting up the job the geoid model to be used must be selected so I know exactly where you are coming from.

This would be a great idea and I would certainly upvote it!

Edit - It appears that there is already an idea in for this. https://community.esri.com/t5/arcgis-field-maps-ideas/measure-the-orthometric-height-in-field-maps/idi-p/1058895

I hope this helps.

Respectfully,

Tom

Re: Collect Orthometric Height in Field Maps and Projected Coordinate Systems in Field Maps

BrandonWotachek — Wed, 30 Jun 2021 12:02:59 GMT

Tom,

Thanks for your input. I had already reviewed the links you included above, including the work arounds. I am not a fan of the work arounds when I know there is other software out there that can do what I need. The fact that Field Maps does not understand Geoid and Orthometric Height is a big problem in my eyes. If a field user has a high accuracy external GPS receiver, the option to collect accurate data should be an option in Field Maps and one should not have to post process ellipsoidal heights to get orthometric heights. Not everyone is happy with "approximate". I understand that one should not be collecting any sort of Z value with a phone or tablets internal GPS, but I feel esri should provide solutions for those of us that want to collect such data without using the full suite of a survey product such as Trimble Access. I am not expecting an esri version of Trimble Access, but an app a little more robust would be nice. I am hoping esri will improve Field Maps. If anyone can recommend another Android app that works with a Juniper Geode GPS receiver and can work with projected coordinate systems and record orthometric height, please let me know.

Re: Collect Orthometric Height in Field Maps and Projected Coordinate Systems in Field Maps

ColinLawrence — Thu, 01 Jul 2021 18:04:22 GMT

Hi @BrandonWotachek ,

Support for vertical transformations within the app is on the Field Map's team road map; the underlying runtime must support this before it can be brought in. As you might imagine this is a complicated task to build into a mobile app.

There are methods to view the ortho heights within the popup (attributes) of a feature but does require post processing to bring this into the feature geometry. It sounds like you are aware of these tools. Direct support within the app in the future will certainly simplify this workflow.

Regards,

Colin

Re: Collect Orthometric Height in Field Maps and Projected Coordinate Systems in Field Maps

David_Brooks — Sat, 14 Aug 2021 10:09:12 GMT

As @ColinLawrence said above, but can you get your Trimble software to pre process before sending to field maps? I use Trimble Catalyst with Trimble mobile manager, which Ive preloaded with the OSGM15 geoid for United Kingdom, so the gnss z is projected to geoid before hitting field maps, and then the projection from ETRF to OSGB for X and Y is performed in field maps.

Can you do the same with your Trimble device?

Re: Collect Orthometric Height in Field Maps and Projected Coordinate Systems in Field Maps

Kyle_LocGov — Thu, 19 Aug 2021 22:03:38 GMT

Hey Brandon,

Have you looked into Frontier Precision's online resources?

https://frontierprecision.com/mean-sea-level-with-trimble-receivers-and-collector-for-arcgis/

Re: Collect Orthometric Height in Field Maps and Projected Coordinate Systems in Field Maps

JenniferStarbuck1 — Wed, 01 Sep 2021 16:52:37 GMT

" I cannot get Field Maps to take a coordinate system other than WGS84" I have all ways see this as an issue from the OG Collector app and still in Field Map app. I just got done doing a GPS Accuracy test using R2 with RTX, R1 with SBAS connected to iPhone8+ and Trimble TDC600. I took the steps to save my data projection in NAD832011, set trimble mobile map (TMM) to get the NAD83 output, configured Field Map (FM) with the location profile datum transformation NAD83 to WGS84. All points collected showed a 1.5ft shift when comparing GPS collected point against photo identifiable targets and survey control points. I performed a second round of GPS collection with TMM outputting WGS84 and FM location profile set to default. This setting gave me the results I was looking for. I do not believe any of Esri field mapping applications can WGS84.

Re: Collect Orthometric Height in Field Maps and Projected Coordinate Systems in Field Maps

DanielleRose — Thu, 16 Dec 2021 00:42:29 GMT

Hello Colin,

Do you happen to know time frame? We need orthometric height and vertical accuracy reported for our project so trying to figure out the best route for us going forward. Not sure if we should postpone or find an alternate software.

Re: Collect Orthometric Height in Field Maps and Projected Coordinate Systems in Field Maps

ColinLawrence — Thu, 16 Dec 2021 00:55:14 GMT

Its on the near to mid-term scale in terms of our roadmap. This is still a little murky due to the underlying dependencies. I apologize I cannot give a more specific time at this point.

Regards,

Colin

Re: Collect Orthometric Height in Field Maps and Projected Coordinate Systems in Field Maps

Darius_MGISS — Thu, 06 Oct 2022 15:24:27 GMT

Hi David, check out Z-Transform for OSGM15 transformations in the UK. Runs as a live service processing results directly into your Field Maps feature services - https://mgiss.co.uk/z-transform/

Re: Collect Orthometric Height in Field Maps and Projected Coordinate Systems in Field Maps

mykola — Thu, 20 Oct 2022 13:46:58 GMT

Hi Brandon,

I just found your question that relates to the problem that I am facing with Field Maps (and earlier Collector) in Iceland. We use local CS and every survey point has a slightly different ortho height when measured in Field Maps. I use Emlid RS2 receiver and the native app ReachViewæ from Emlid gives me the correct height when compared to the data from a local National Survey. However, the esri apps sometimes show up to +/- 30cm difference. Our vertical datum was recently updated based on the new geoid but unfortunately I cannot even choose vertical datum in the field maps. Have you already come up with the solution? Cheers.

Re: Collect Orthometric Height in Field Maps and Projected Coordinate Systems in Field Maps

JMGhosh — Mon, 13 Feb 2023 12:34:59 GMT

Hey @ColinLawrence ,

Has this functionality been added to Field Maps? I'm still having an issue with not seeing the Ortho height in Field Maps. If it hasn't been added yet, is there a timeline as to when we might see this added?

Thanks,

James

Re: Collect Orthometric Height in Field Maps and Projected Coordinate Systems in Field Maps

federicovarini — Wed, 29 Mar 2023 10:48:37 GMT

Hi @ColinLawrence

Has this functionality been added to Field Maps?

We have the same problem as Danielle at my company. we wanted to know if there is any news

Re: Collect Orthometric Height in Field Maps and Projected Coordinate Systems in Field Maps

Darius_MGISS — Mon, 17 Apr 2023 10:10:56 GMT

MGISS have developed a Field Maps plugin to perform these calculations on the fly (for the UK). Until esri develop this functionality plugins like this are your best bet.

ArcGIS Marketplace - Z-Transform

Re: Collect Orthometric Height in Field Maps and Projected Coordinate Systems in Field Maps

DannySmith12 — Thu, 11 May 2023 14:12:48 GMT

Hi @JMGhosh ,

Wanted to add to the discussion. In Field Maps, one needs to create a calculated arcade expression, assure it is showing in the pop-up table (it will not by default), have GPS Metadata fields added (ArcGIS Pro tool) and Z enabled on the web layer. After creating an extra blank field called Ortho height for example with double numeric format, create the calculated arcade expression in a web map and also in Field Maps. The script is at the bottom. I have not tested this as I am running in ArcGIS Enterprise 10.9.1 and calculated arcade expressions aren't available in this version. It is available in 11.0 but we are not venturing there yet. Let me know if this works.

// change to false if feet desired
var useMeters = true;

var geom = Geometry($feature);

if(!IsEmpty(geom)){
  var elevation = geom.Z;
  if(useMeters){
      return elevation;
  }
  else {
    return Round(elevation * 3.2808,3);
  }
}
else {
  return null;
}

Re: Collect Orthometric Height in Field Maps and Projected Coordinate Systems in Field Maps

JMGhosh — Thu, 11 May 2023 15:38:21 GMT

Hi @DannySmith12

Thanks for the reply. This is actually a workaround I currently use. But I was hoping that ESRI would implement a more straightforward approach to where this becomes part of the metadata fields and populated automatically as data collection is taking place.

Thanks again!

James

Re: Collect Orthometric Height in Field Maps and Projected Coordinate Systems in Field Maps

DannySmith12 — Thu, 11 May 2023 15:40:58 GMT

@JMGhosh Yeah that would be ideal! Quick question regarding your workflow. Did you ever have issues with the new ortho height data populating in field maps pop-up, but not in the web map?

Re: Collect Orthometric Height in Field Maps and Projected Coordinate Systems in Field Maps

JMGhosh — Thu, 11 May 2023 15:52:35 GMT

To date I have not had this happen yet. But if I do see that behavior. I'll reply back to this thread. 🙂

Re: Collect Orthometric Height in Field Maps and Projected Coordinate Systems in Field Maps

PeterL — Tue, 04 Mar 2025 22:11:41 GMT

Hi, @ColinLawrence. Any updates on when this is expected to be added?

Thank you!

-Peter

Re: Collect Orthometric Height in Field Maps and Projected Coordinate Systems in Field Maps

mykola — Wed, 05 Mar 2025 11:04:54 GMT

Just an update since my last comment under this topic. We have further developed the GNSS measurement workflow using Field Maps and Emlid GNSS and it works quite smooth so far. I haven't looked into the script for many months and it is kind of a success marker regarding the final working solution in our case. We have in total 20-25 devices in operation and the workers are able to measure the utilities without calling for a surveyor. This is a clear time saving step for us in addition to the live monitoring of the GPS points (instead of CSV files).

Emlid integrates perfectly with Field Maps without any additional app required to run with the field maps (like Trimble Mobile Manager in case of Trimble). We then use postprocessing workflow to further process the data and append it to our existing point features in the Arcgis Enterprise.

We created a specific point feature class for GNSS points in the local coordinate system and added the ESRIGNSS_ fields necessary for the high-precision point collection. Out RTK correction service is also in the local coordinate system so there is a match and no issues occur. Then, during the postprocessing, we extract the X and Y from the "@shape" to populate X and Y on the point features. Thus we get the local coordinates and not just Lat/Lon.

The biggest issue we faced was the vertical datum. The Field Maps uses global geoid EGM96 if I remember correctly. It causes issues with Z value because that geoid is coarser than our local one. Field Maps does not have an option to apply custom geoid (which would be extremely useful) so we have to apply it later during postprocessing. Thus instead of extracting the Z value from the geometry (which is a little off because of the geoid) we use a raw ESRIGNSS_ALTITUDE value to read the ellipsoidal height and then correct with the geoid value from the local geoid DEM for the given location of the point.

The end user only sees the project number and description fields in the field map form and the rest is done in the backend.

In general, the Field Maps is a field data collection and is a perfect solution for different data collection cases. But it is not the surveying app so the limited capabilities in terms of the settings for GNSS measurements is understandable. But in my opinion, if it offers the high-precision data collection, it should also have the option to adjust basic GNSS survey-related things.