topic Re: ArcGIS Server Pre-Install Questions in ArcGIS Enterprise Questions

ArcGIS Server Pre-Install Questions

JD1016 — Tue, 25 Oct 2022 12:42:58 GMT

Hello,

Within the next few weeks we will be switching to ArcGIS Server 10.9.1.. We are currently running ArcGIS for Server 10.4.1. on one machine. This machine will soon be retired and a new one put in it's place that will be running ArcGIS Server 10.9.1.. As with all things, there is a certain degree of trepidation with hoping everything continues to function normally and a overwhelming desire to not over think the process. I was not here when the original machine was configured and have never gone through this type of upgrade so I am somewhat anxious at the thought and have some questions. I apologize in advance if my questions seem too mundane but my knowledge in this arena is somewhat lacking.

Question 1: Should I "create a new site" or should I "join an existing site"? I am assuming the reference to "site" is that which is visible through ArcGIS Server Manager and those services currently running on the, what will be, old server? When I see "join an existing site" I'm wondering if by doing so it would be a way of migrating over those services currently on the old server to the new server without interruption.

Question 2: Is there an easy way of doing this entire process that I may have overlooked given the fact we are starting with a new server and we have a server currently running services for ArcGIS Online?

Question 3: How can I tell if I have a "federated server"?

Question 4: Are there any good sources out there that offer a step-by-step guide for this installation? By "good" I mean the literature takes you through it without missing a beat and is not afraid to insult your intelligence by including any and all minutia.

Thank you in advance for your patience and understanding.

Jeff

Re: ArcGIS Server Pre-Install Questions

Brian_Wilson — Tue, 25 Oct 2022 16:47:05 GMT

You are not overthinking.

1. We tried repeatedly to use Join Site, including getting assistance from Esri support. They could not make it work. I ended up using a "backup and restore" approach. We were upgrading from 10.8 to 10.9.1 and moving from a single machine to multiple machines (currently one for Portal and one for Server). It's interesting how well documented a process can be, can be recommended by Esri Support, and even Esri techs can't get it to work. My advice is 1. be flexible and ready to change directions and 2. just because it's documented doesn't mean it works.

2. Having done several upgrades now I can seriously say there is no easy way.

3. If you can manage services from Portal then your Server is federated, that's what that means. You should be able to see it in the Portal -> Organization -> Settings -> Servers page.

4. There is always some step left out, for me I struggled at several spots not knowing which of the myriad accounts and passwords I was supposed to use. You mean my account? Portal account? Server account? I do this kind of work off-hours, if you do, make sure you have every username and password available. Stupid password things are so fundamentally embarrassing to admit in public. 🙂 But can cost a day's work.

This probably won't happen to you but I keep saying this in Community because it was so painful. I think it was the 10.7 to 10.8 upgrade -- it crashed all every one of our WAB sites and left them unrecoverable (yes, that's what Esri told us after leaving us hanging on for weeks with "we're still looking at it" messages.) During the time they were "researching" we rebuilt all our sites in WABDE (WebAppBuilder, Developer Edition) which is free-standing so it does not depend Portal directly. This makes it more resilient. Each WABDE site has a separate copy of all the JavaScript it needs to function. By contrast the WAB sites all share code inside Portal, so they potentially all break at the same time on upgrades.

We keep our critical public site in Portal but have a version of it (always slightly out of date!) stored and available in ArcGIS Online. I think this is a good strategy for emergencies.

I wanted to migrate from a single machine to multiple machines for resilience, not performance. We were running an outdated SQL Server on the machine too, so we have a SQL Server managed by our county-wide IT group now, a Portal machine and a Server machine. There is a Datastore machine too, but the upgrade process would not switch over to it. By that point I threw up my hands and said "fine, Datastore, stay where you are" and will revisit it when I do the upgrade to 11.

One of the first things when there are problems that the Esri support tech says is "can you roll back to a snapshot?" and the answer used to be "no, that would wipe out our changes in SQL Server". Now that I have 3 servers instead of one, and a totally separate SQL Server, the answer will _sometimes_ be "yes, I can rollback".

Esri techs will sometimes ask you to do things like start an 8 hour upgrade process at 2 in the afternoon on a weekday. Sometimes they will ask you to roll back a server without telling you it might wipe out several days of work. You need to remember you are in charge and you need to ask lots of questions like "won't this take my business critical services off line possibly for the next 8-12 hours?" The techs can be very knowledgeable but sometimes they can also be a little too eager when you should be going slow. Make sure you know what is going on and if they can't tell you, stop and figure it out before you go on. You're not overthinking. 😉

Re: ArcGIS Server Pre-Install Questions

JD1016 — Tue, 25 Oct 2022 17:19:04 GMT

Brian,

I can't tell you how much I appreciate your response and words of encouragement. I haven't had to use them a lot, but I've had mostly good experiences with technical support. However, I do have to admit there are times that I need them to slow down and not pull the trigger so fast. I like to think the process through and at times they have tended to be on the aggressive side which caused some major issues on one occasion. That experience taught me a lot and I've modified my approach accordingly.

1. Good advice. The join site does "seem" like a good approach given our current situation and perhaps would include a little less heavy lifting on our part. My intention is to try that path but, as you suggested, be ready to pull the cord and switch directions before chaos ensues.

2. Not surprising but I had to ask.

3. Any managing of the services is primarily done through ArcGIS Server Manager. From what I can glean, I don't believe Portal for ArcGIS was ever installed. It appears everything runs through Server. So...no federated server then.

4. In doing my research for this event I have come across a wealth of information. Unfortunately, I akin what I've come across as being in an upper level math class where the instructor skips several steps because "you guys should know this by now...right". Whenever I do this type of research I always have to face the fact I will be accumulating a vast amount of data and in the end attempt to piece together a coherent plan of attack based on information taken from several sources. Big sigh...

I will take your advice and pointers to heart and forge ahead. Glad to hear that I wasn't overthinking the whole thing.

Thank you again, Brian.

Jeff

Re: ArcGIS Server Pre-Install Questions

Scott_Tansley — Tue, 25 Oct 2022 18:24:59 GMT

Quick note. The ‘join site’ means to pair up two servers of the same software version. this is primarily for scaling or high-availability purposes.

However, You can use it to upgrade, but it’s usually for operating system changes.

if you had windows server 2012 and 10.4.1, then you can install 10.4.1 on win 2019. Join site. The Content copies automatically copies. Remove the 2012 server. Upgrade 10.4.1 to 10.9.1.

You cannot join 10.9.1 to 10.4.1 directly.

Re: ArcGIS Server Pre-Install Questions

Brian_Wilson — Tue, 25 Oct 2022 18:26:50 GMT

Only Server! Ah! That will be much easier to upgrade.

Seriously I wonder if I might be happier without Portal. It was never my place to make that call.

Lots of the glitches I've had to work through involve problems with Portal and Server not being perfect partners.

Re: ArcGIS Server Pre-Install Questions

Scott_Tansley — Tue, 25 Oct 2022 18:32:19 GMT

That’s a shame Brian. When you do lots of installs, upgrades and healthchecks you learn how to tune it and make it sing. They actually work together beautifully.

Re: ArcGIS Server Pre-Install Questions

Brian_Wilson — Tue, 25 Oct 2022 18:33:31 GMT

Our use case was migrating from a single machine to multimachine.

So, you do "join site" at 10.8 to move the Server to a new machine then turn off the original 10.8 server instance and then proceed to upgrade to 10.9.1. It failed.

Then we tried doing the upgrade to 10.9.1 first followed by "join site" and that failed too.

Re: ArcGIS Server Pre-Install Questions

JD1016 — Tue, 25 Oct 2022 18:34:59 GMT

Scott,

Just to clarify...I read that if you are using Join Site to migrate, the new and existing machines do not need to match, but if you intend to keep all machines in the site then there is a list of criteria that needs to be respected and matching is one of them.

I do not intend on keeping both machines. Just the new one.

Am I reading that incorrectly? I assumed I would be okay.

Re: ArcGIS Server Pre-Install Questions

Brian_Wilson — Tue, 25 Oct 2022 18:35:36 GMT

Too bad Esri Support can't do that!

Re: ArcGIS Server Pre-Install Questions

Scott_Tansley — Tue, 25 Oct 2022 18:39:05 GMT

For the migration the operating system versions can differ. However for ongoing BAU they either must match or you can deprecate one. If you’re deprecating then you’ll be fine. But you will be at 10.4.1 on the new server and still have to do an upgrade.

also. Your content and directories must be in a location visible to both machines.

It is an option but not an easy option.

Many clients choose to republish content because it’s an opportunity to review and cleanse it.

Re: ArcGIS Server Pre-Install Questions

Scott_Tansley — Tue, 25 Oct 2022 18:41:09 GMT

The only reason that I’ve seen that approach fail is because the content and directories were on the original machine. By turning the machine off the new machine can’t read it. You’d normally copy it to a third server so it’s shared between them?

Re: ArcGIS Server Pre-Install Questions

JD1016 — Tue, 25 Oct 2022 18:51:13 GMT

This must one of those instances where the instructions do not match reality. When you read this it paints a slightly different picture albeit appearing to leave some things out evidently. The directions simply say the "existing machines do not need to match" which leads me to believe it is an absolute or they would have indicated as such.

https://enterprise.arcgis.com/en/server/10.9.1/install/windows/join-existing-site.htm

Re: ArcGIS Server Pre-Install Questions

Scott_Tansley — Tue, 25 Oct 2022 18:58:09 GMT

“

If you are using Join Site to migrate, the new and existing machines do not need to match, but if you intend to keep all machines in the site, it is recommended that you ensure they meet the following criteria:

It must be at the same version number as the other ArcGIS Server machines in the site.”

it’s talking about the operating system, memory and CPU, not the ArcGIS software version

Re: ArcGIS Server Pre-Install Questions

Brian_Wilson — Tue, 25 Oct 2022 19:03:10 GMT

Moving the data is well documented in the instructions, and I did that. The old server ran just fine for several weeks on a fileshare while Esri tried to figure out why the new one would not work.

I don't remember the exact failure now, it's in my notes. Basically I think the new machine simply could not complete the "join site".

The support team never considered the possibility of joining a new10.9 machine to the old 10.8 set up, that option was never on the table.

Re: ArcGIS Server Pre-Install Questions

Scott_Tansley — Tue, 25 Oct 2022 19:03:54 GMT

Actually i now see how you’re reading that.

I was in the distributor community and it was always harder to upgrade/migrate when new operating systems were required.

aboit 4 years ago there was a blog which showed how to stand up new machines, instal the same version, join site, deprecate old and then upgrade new. It made a lot of sense and changed the game.

I maybe reading too much into this given you’re only using server and not full enterprise.

I’m risk averse and especially when working with client system/. I’d still approach this in the way I described because I know it works.

Re: ArcGIS Server Pre-Install Questions

JD1016 — Tue, 25 Oct 2022 19:04:56 GMT

Unfortunately, the way that it was written is completely unclear. I'm not seeing anywhere in there that it says if you are using the Join Site to migrate, the new and existing machines do not need to match...except for the ArcGIS software version.

Re: ArcGIS Server Pre-Install Questions

JD1016 — Tue, 25 Oct 2022 19:10:36 GMT

Possibly yet another case as Brian was eluding to where information credibility comes into play. It's terribly unfortunate to not be able to trust the directions being given by an entity that we are relying on to take us through something this important.

Re: ArcGIS Server Pre-Install Questions

Scott_Tansley — Tue, 25 Oct 2022 19:16:34 GMT

back when I was a lad in the days of 8.x and 9.x the documentation was very geeky and technical. It was awesome, in fact. People complained it was too geeky. It then became (IMO) a marketing style of documentation. The information you need is often split over multiple pages and sometimes is contradictory.

personally I’ve been around server sans enterprise since the beginning of both and have installed and upgraded each version. Sometimes I think I can do it in my sleep. So returning to the document you shared. I can only say I can read it in two ways. I know how I’d approach it and I know I’d get the results. That’s experience though….

Re: ArcGIS Server Pre-Install Questions

JD1016 — Tue, 25 Oct 2022 19:25:18 GMT

You have the advantage of experience, which is what I wish I had. When you look at things you can read into it based on a vast library of past knowledge. Unfortunately, for someone like me, doing this for the first time, I rely on documentation to take me through the process and in this case it has left me with nothing but questions and frustration.

Re: ArcGIS Server Pre-Install Questions

Scott_Tansley — Wed, 26 Oct 2022 00:28:42 GMT

I hear you. I would hate to be a technical writer. Like you, I prefer depth. So many other people want it easy. I honestly don't know what the right answer is in putting so much documentation out to such a wide audience. I feel for them, and the support teams that have to support software on AWS, Azure, Google cloud, a myriad of IaaS providers, and probably on someones IBM 386 sx25! 😞