topic Re: Help a newbie decide how to set up Server in ArcGIS Enterprise Questions

Help a newbie decide how to set up Server

AdrianWelsh — Thu, 03 Mar 2016 15:26:34 GMT

I have never been on the back end of setting up a server for the first time and now I find myself working for a small company that is just getting its feet wet with GIS. The issue is, I am not sure where to start and not sure if I should consult the GeoNet or my local Esri rep.

There seems to be so many options out there and I want to make sure I get things setup right initially. We do not have a real dedicated server machine in our building so we are looking at options on this (like do we outsource and use something like Amazon web services, do we dedicate a local machine in-house, etc.). My company has a standard ArcGIS Server Workgroup license (with two cores, whatever that means). We will be wanting to host data on our ArcGIS Online site and will want to be able to update that data regularly. We will also want some secure services and things like that (and we are in the US).

We do not have a back-end relational database but I believe we are working towards getting one on PostgreSQL, from what I understand. Our website has a MySQL component that could work, I suppose, but then again, I am unfamiliar with configuring these types of relational databases (though, I would love to learn).

Ok GeoNet, the question is, where is the best place for me to start? How should I best approach this to get the most value and functionality? Are options like ArcGIS for Portal or an SDE likely possibilities for me?

Thanks!

Re: Help a newbie decide how to set up Server

SteveCole — Thu, 03 Mar 2016 16:08:25 GMT

I don't have the dubious honor of having to do what you're trying to do so I don't really know the ins & outs. Our organization is having performance issues under peak loads so I'm trying to research what I have no control over.

That being said, there are some good links (and perhaps a good book to pick up) about setting up Server in this thread.

Good luck!

Steve

Re: Help a newbie decide how to set up Server

MichaelVolz — Thu, 03 Mar 2016 16:15:08 GMT

Are you having performance issues with all your services or just specific services?

Do you have a multi-server environment? If so, can you set your hardest hit service(s) on 1 server in its own cluster and put all the other services in another cluster using the other server?

Re: Help a newbie decide how to set up Server

SteveCole — Thu, 03 Mar 2016 16:31:58 GMT

Michael Volz It's the same issue we were discussing in my thread about designing load tests. I don't have anything really new to report; I just think we're using under-powered resources to support high demand services. In other words, we can't really support high demand services given our current resources.

Re: Help a newbie decide how to set up Server

MichaelVolz — Thu, 03 Mar 2016 16:36:28 GMT

Sorry to hijack this thread, but Steve did you ever try using the python code example to move your stream gauge service to AGOL which is most likely much more scalable than your hosted environment?

Re: Help a newbie decide how to set up Server

RebeccaStrauch__GISP — Thu, 03 Mar 2016 16:46:05 GMT

Adrian, you may want to invest in an Esri Development Network (EDN) license so you can test some of these options out before you invest heavily in one direction.

Esri Developer Network | What You Get

Esri Developer Network | Pricing

It's an annual subscription, but full software so you can eventually roll/convert it to a full license once you know what you want. It is a person subscription, so once you have a few that need to test/develop it is better to buy the full license (for us 5-6 is the magic number). This is a great way to test the waters, and we have it for a couple of us for development purposes and caching on a dev machine versus a production machine.

Re: Help a newbie decide how to set up Server

AdrianWelsh — Thu, 03 Mar 2016 17:06:52 GMT

Re: Help a newbie decide how to set up Server

SteveCole — Thu, 03 Mar 2016 17:11:56 GMT

Sorry, no, I haven't. Part of me isn't happy that I'm doing someone else's job for them and the other part of me got busy with other things. Plus it's not currently flooding.

Re: Help a newbie decide how to set up Server

AdrianWelsh — Thu, 03 Mar 2016 17:47:00 GMT

Wow, the rabbit hole certainly gets deeper! I really appreciate the advice. I have a feeling that my company will have a hard time justifying these types of purchases but it's good to know what likely needs to be done.

Does everyone have an EDN license who manages ArcGIS for Server? I wonder if I should call my local esri person to get an idea on how to best manager what we currently have and what we 'should' have.

Re: Help a newbie decide how to set up Server

RebeccaStrauch__GISP — Thu, 03 Mar 2016 18:10:49 GMT

It's less expensive for us than a staging license and gives us an opportunity to try out additional technologies to determine if we would want to buy (can't get a 60-day trial for everything, and many times would want more time anyway). Again, for our agency (with no Enterprise License Agreement) our EDN to Staging license purchase/maintenance cutoff is about 5 users...and license rules for the EDN must be followed. I would talk to a customer service rep since mileage may vary. That is just how I have been managing the licenses for us.

(as a side note, I will probably purchase for personal use, once I leave/lose access to my agency license. This is the cheapest way I've found for still playing with all the gis toys...non-commercial use)

Re: Help a newbie decide how to set up Server

SteveCole — Thu, 03 Mar 2016 18:18:28 GMT

Yet more rabbit hole notes...

Since you mentioned ArcGIS Server for Workgroups, you should know of a "limitation" should you decide to pursue Portal. ESRI recommends that Portal and ArcGIS Server be installed on separate servers but- this isn't possible if you're using ArcGIS Server for Workgroups. Under that license level, they have to be on the same server. Don't recall why this is.

Thread about this issue.

Re: Help a newbie decide how to set up Server

AdrianWelsh — Thu, 03 Mar 2016 19:18:16 GMT

Wow, that is really good to know. I appreciate the info.

Re: Help a newbie decide how to set up Server

AdrianWelsh — Thu, 03 Mar 2016 19:21:07 GMT

Aside from getting a server set up and such, are there any good recommendations on how to best handle the data in terms of databases?

I just read this blog (from Walter Simonazzi) on SDE vs Multiuser Geodatabases:

Is ArcSDE dead?

which has been helpful in defining certain things. But I am unsure on how to get this sort of thing started (and I don't think we have the infrastructure just yet unless I can use my company's website's MySQL database).

Re: Help a newbie decide how to set up Server

AdrianWelsh — Thu, 03 Mar 2016 19:22:13 GMT

thanks for the explanation. It's good to know what I need to be thinking about!

Re: Help a newbie decide how to set up Server

AdrianWelsh — Mon, 07 Mar 2016 14:11:29 GMT

That book (Administering ArcGIS for Server: Hussein Nasser: 9781782177364: Amazon.com: Books ) is sounding more and more like good starting place for a lot of this.

Re: Help a newbie decide how to set up Server

BrianOevermann — Tue, 08 Mar 2016 19:01:43 GMT

Adrian,

Previous posts have pointed you to some decent sources of info. You don't provide much info regarding what you are needing the map server for, so we can only speculate regarding your true needs. You mention you already have Server Workgroup but we don't know if someone at your company got talked into buying a license and now you need to figure out how to implement it or if it was purchased by someone prior to you with more knowledge and they left before implementation and you are assigned to pick up where that person left off but with less knowledge.

Depending on your needs, you may be able to just use ArcGIS Online and pay Esri to host your data. You could get rid of the Workgroup license cost and put it toward AGOL and hosting. You already mentioned Amazon Web Services, which could save you from managing the hardware but I don't know how your existing Workgroup license might be leveraged (does it just transfer?). Both of these scenarios could save you from the hassles of maintaining hardware. Your overall knowledge level, such as with relational databases, should also be taken into account. It's evident that you have a willingness to learn but do you have the time and resources to do so? And what are the expectations of your employer? Do they understand where you are on the knowledge arc for Server or do they believe that because you "know computers" you automatically know Server? I have co-workers who believe I am a Windows desktop support specialist simply because my desk was once in IT (my job has always been as a GIS Coordinator). I call it "abilities by association".

You also mention needing some secure services, so maybe your data is sensitive enough that you don't want it hosted off-site. Someone mentioned that Portal (should you decide to host AGOL in-house) is recommended to be on a separate server. You say you work for a small company. Depending upon how beefy your server is and exactly how small your company is (i.e. how many users are expected to be hitting the server/Portal at one time) you may be just fine with both on the same box.

I think the book that was mentioned would give you a solid contextual knowledge of Server--enough to be able to ask the right questions of Esri reps or maybe a consultant hired to take your use case and recommend a setup or course of action. Rebecca's comment regarding an EDN subscription could make sense, but once you settle on a possible configuration, you may consider asking your Esri rep to provide a six month trial license (if you don't already have the necessary licenses) to test the viability of your decision. I'm not sure if Esri does that much anymore but it would be worth asking.

BTW, SDE is part of ArcGIS for Server Standard (Workgroup or Enterprise), so you just need to have a compatible relational database (yet another additional cost/license and possibly another server box).

Re: Help a newbie decide how to set up Server

KeithMann — Fri, 11 Mar 2016 01:08:39 GMT

Adrian - could you provide a little more information. What version of ArcGIS for Server are you using? And, is it a Basic, Standard or Advanced edition? This information will help determine the capabilities of your Server. Also, I really like Brian's suggestion to start by using ArcGIS Online and get some quick wins while you figure out how you want to use your Server license. Lots of smaller organizations and departments use Server Workgroup but there are some limitations, as Steve mentioned. Take a look at the ArcGIS for Server Functionality Matrix (a buyer's guide of sorts) and look at the Capacity section.

In the mean time, look at the ArcGIS for Server (Windows) installation guide and the Portal for ArcGIS (Windows) installation guide. You might want to just try installing Server on your machine first to play around with it before you try to put it into production mode. You can always install and configure Portal later. Focus on the Single Machine Deployment for your test environment. Since you'll use the Server to generate web services, you should talk to your SysAdmin about testing a GIS Server on your machine.

Definitely talk with Esri Support about what you want to do. You'll need to know your Esri customer number.

Re: Help a newbie decide how to set up Server

AdrianWelsh — Mon, 14 Mar 2016 13:34:45 GMT

Brian,

I really appreciate the response and this is good info. Server workgroup was purchased prior to me starting at this company and it is still unclear on our exact needs (unfortunately). I fully understand about being considered an “IT” person just because “I know computers”. But, I’m sure everyone has gone through this and for the most part, us “IT” people have helped fix a few things (like, did you restart your PC???, etc.).

I finally did call my Esri sales rep and it just left me more confused than before. I suppose my company does not know exactly what we need or where we think we are going, so there are problems there. The Esri rep I talked to said that if we wanted to use Secure Services and have people outside of my organization access these services, then we would have to upgrade to the ‘higher’ version of Server that involves “Application Service Provider” and would cost waaaaay much more than my company would ever shell out.

From talking with the Esri guy, it sounds like my first steps might be just to install the Server Workgroup and kind of see what we can do from there (though, first we need to get a dedicated server, or go with Amazon web services or so).

And… with Server Workgroup Standard license, I can only use a MS SQL Server Express. So that really isn’t an option for now.

Again, thanks for your help and suggestions. I really do appreciate it.

Cheers,

Adrian

Re: Help a newbie decide how to set up Server

AdrianWelsh — Mon, 14 Mar 2016 13:51:22 GMT

Hi Keith,

I really appreciate the response. We currently have a Server Workgroup Standard license for 10.4. That likely is as far as we will go until the owners of the company see more value (which will take a long time).

To give a little more background, we're a small Utah-based engineering and surveying firm. We work a lot with local government projects but primarily with the State of Utah's DOT. We will be producing data for the State that we will want to host on our AGOL subscription. We will also want to be able to have this data easily updated, which seems to be something we could utilize with Server. We will also need some secure services due to some private info (that we do not want the public to see).

The first hurdle is that we do not have a dedicated server that I can deploy our Server license to. I was thinking of just testing stuff with my local PC but that seems like it may be a little wasteful and I'm afraid of publishing stuff and having it break due to the PC not always being on.

In any case, I think there are still more things we need to figure out and just storing stuff "in the cloud" through AGOL does not seem to be the best approach for us for now. We want to have Map Services instead of Feature Services (in order to utilize labels appropriately).

I like the links that you share, those will help us with our decisions.

Thanks again,

Adrian

Re: Help a newbie decide how to set up Server

BrianOevermann — Mon, 14 Mar 2016 15:44:55 GMT

Adrian,

Your statement: "I suppose my company does not know exactly what we need or where we think we are going..." is a huge red flag to me! It's great that you want to jump in and install AGS Workgroup to see what you can do with it, but that sounds like you are experimenting with a solution trying to find the problem(s) that it will fix for you. That's the wrong approach, particularly if it means spending money on a server (physical or AWS).

Here is a link to the ArcGIS Server functionality matrix document. In the "How to use this document" section it states that "This document is a guide for helping you determine the edition and capacity level of ArcGIS for Server that best fits your organization." I wish it incorporated a "hosted data on AGOL" option into the comparison. I realize that after digesting this document you may realize that [once you know] the things you need AGS to do may require an Enterprise (i.e. more expensive) license and may thus be a 'non-starter' but sometimes the honest truth is ultimately the least painful. I honestly think that AGOL and hosted data may be a viable solution for you.

I haven't spent an appreciable amount of time on AGOL so I can't debate your comment regarding labeling. I do know that originally AGOL was horrible with labeling but I believe that has been improved with subsequent updates. I'm not sure what your AGOL subscription looks like with your licensing of AGS Workgroup and whether you have any credits available as part of it, but you may want to experiment with AGOL first and upload some sample data of yours to work with. I think it is something like 1 credit per Gb of data per month for Esri to host? Even if you don't have a pool of credits as part of your licensing, 1 credit equates to roughly 10 cents (according to our regional office folks at one of Esri's seminars), so a few months of hosted data probably wouldn't break the bank and likely would be cheaper than purchasing a server or AWS. Also, you control what "stuff" gets permissions to be viewed publicly so you CAN keep certain things private if you want.

Admittedly, we are all offering advice/suggestions based upon a very small subset of info regarding your actual needs. So our suggestions/advice may be questionable in certain contexts.