topic Re: ArcSDE no longer needed? in ArcGIS Enterprise Questions

ArcSDE no longer needed?

ErikEngstrom — Wed, 17 Oct 2012 13:19:06 GMT

Through my frustration of not finding the post-installation wizard with ArcSDE 10.1 and being unsuccessful with the command line tool to start an SDE service on our SDE databases, I found I was able to access the databases and copy/past/add features/delete features/etc. all through direct connections to our SQL Server 2012 machine. This was WITHOUT ArcSDE running.

So... The question is, why do I need to go through the trouble of trying to get the SDE services to run if I can manage our databases through the Desktop tools? I was even able to create an enterprise geodatabase and verified that all of the necessary business tables were created.

Perhaps I'm missing something...

Re: ArcSDE no longer needed?

BubbaHey — Wed, 17 Oct 2012 13:36:53 GMT

Not really my area, but I believe the only thing you will need ArcSDE for at 10.1 would be for the sde commandline tools or the application server serivce

Re: ArcSDE no longer needed?

ErikEngstrom — Wed, 17 Oct 2012 13:45:26 GMT

Technically, but what do you need either for specifically?
If your connections to the database use direct connect, you wouldn't need application server, correct?
The command line tools administer the application server installation from what I gather.

I'm just trying to figure out whether SDE is something I need running. Previously, we had connected through SDE services, but now ALL of our connections should be through direct connect. I have a new server where I restored all of our enterprise geodatabases and am having troubles starting the services, even after syncing the users/roles. If I don't need it however, I'm going to move on to other more pressing issues 😉

Re: ArcSDE no longer needed?

NateArnold — Wed, 17 Oct 2012 14:04:01 GMT

If you're not running the application server, then command line tools are still useful for working with dbtune. However, all that stuff can be edited in the config tables directly, so if you're using all direct connect then the service really isn't required. Do your RAM a favor and don't install it 🙂

Nate

Re: ArcSDE no longer needed?

LucaSimone — Wed, 17 Oct 2012 20:39:37 GMT

I was posting the same question here...I have searched all over the resource site and I looked all the documentation.

All my maps are using direct connect and without the sde service on our database machine all works like a charm! Even web editing is working...so, I'm ready to migrate our apps to 10.1 but this question is killing me 🙂 please someone at ESRI answer this.

Re: ArcSDE no longer needed?

StephanieSnider — Thu, 18 Oct 2012 19:23:58 GMT

I've been searching for the answer to this question too. I found this article which seems to imply that ArcSDE is only needed for "versioned geodatabases".

http://forums.arcgis.com/threads/57375-Why-would-I-install-ArcSDE-with-10.1

Re: ArcSDE no longer needed?

KimPeter — Mon, 22 Oct 2012 20:07:20 GMT

As indicated in the What's new for geodatabases topic:

"The recommended method to access enterprise geodatabases is to connect directly from ArcGIS clients. If you only use direct connections to your geodatabase, you do not have to install the ArcSDE application server."
http://resources.arcgis.com/en/help/main/10.1/index.html#/What_s_new_for_geodatabases/016w00000031000000/

If you need to edit settings in the ArcSDE system tables, though, you should still install the command line tools included with the application server. I don't think editing system tables directly through SQL is supported technically.

Re: ArcSDE no longer needed?

Anonymous User — Mon, 26 Nov 2012 13:33:40 GMT

One might say that ArcSDE services exist for "backwards compatibility". If you have applications on older platforms or using older API's, like MapObjects, then you still might need services. But it will be up to ESRI as to how long these services are kept up-to-date with the latest ArcSDE releases.

Re: ArcSDE no longer needed?

JamalNUMAN — Sat, 22 Dec 2012 05:51:41 GMT

As indicated in the What's new for geodatabases topic:

"The recommended method to access enterprise geodatabases is to connect directly from ArcGIS clients. If you only use direct connections to your geodatabase, you do not have to install the ArcSDE application server."
http://resources.arcgis.com/en/help/main/10.1/index.html#/What_s_new_for_geodatabases/016w00000031000000/

If you need to edit settings in the ArcSDE system tables, though, you should still install the command line tools included with the application server. I don't think editing system tables directly through SQL is supported technically.

Hi Kimberly,

In our institution, we got the ArcGIS server (standard/enterprise). I�??m till now a little bit confused regarding the ArcSDE and ArcGIS server.

Is the (workgroup/enterprise) refers to the ArcSDE?
Is the (basic/standard/advance) refers to ArcGIS server?

How the ArcSDE itself is included in the ArcGIS server?

I couldn�??t figure out how the ArcSDE is overlapped with the ArcGIS Server

Thanks

Jamal

Re: ArcSDE no longer needed?

DerekLaw — Fri, 28 Dec 2012 06:47:15 GMT

Hi Jamal,

... Is the (workgroup/enterprise) refers to the ArcSDE? Is the (basic/standard/advance) refers to ArcGIS server?

A1. Please review the documentation below for more info:

* ArcGIS for Server is available in two levels, Enterprise and Workgroup
* ArcGIS for Server Functionality

How the ArcSDE itself is included in the ArcGIS server?

A2. ArcSDE technology is included "in the box" with ArcGIS for Server. It is available in all functional editions. See the previous links above for details.

Hope this helps,

Re: ArcSDE no longer needed?

JamalNUMAN — Fri, 28 Dec 2012 15:03:12 GMT

Hi Jamal,

A1. Please review the documentation below for more info:

* ArcGIS for Server is available in two levels, Enterprise and Workgroup
* ArcGIS for Server Functionality

A2. ArcSDE technology is included "in the box" with ArcGIS for Server. It is available in all functional editions. See the previous links above for details.

Hope this helps,

Many thanks Derek for the elaboration.

And even the ArcSDE and ArcGIS server are installed separately! None of them is a prerequisite for the other.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]20264[/ATTACH], [ATTACH=CONFIG]20265[/ATTACH]

Do we need to install the ArcSDE and ArcGIS server on the Server machine only or on the clients (users) machines as well?

Best

Jamal

Re: ArcSDE no longer needed?

DerekLaw — Sun, 30 Dec 2012 03:33:29 GMT

Hi Jamal,

Do we need to install the ArcSDE and ArcGIS server on the Server machine only or on the clients (users) machines as well?

You would typically install ArcGIS for Server and ArcSDE technology on server-side machines to enable a GIS server and an ArcSDE geodatabase, respectively. Both are server-side software.

Regarding ArcSDE technology - you can have it on client (end user) machines when they use ArcGIS for Desktop. This relates to making "direct connections" to your geodatabase (as mentioned in Kim's post earlier in this thread), instead of using an ArcSDE application server connection.

FYI, Enterprise Geodatabase 101 ArcUser article
(look under the section "Type of Client Connections")

Esri is now actively promoting the "Direct Connection" model when connecting to an ArcSDE geodatabase.

Hope this helps,

Re: ArcSDE no longer needed?

JamalNUMAN — Sun, 30 Dec 2012 03:49:56 GMT

Hi Jamal,

You would typically install ArcGIS for Server and ArcSDE technology on server-side machines to enable a GIS server and an ArcSDE geodatabase, respectively. Both are server-side software.

Regarding ArcSDE technology - you can have it on client (end user) machines when they use ArcGIS for Desktop. This relates to making "direct connections" to your geodatabase (as mentioned in Kim's post earlier in this thread), instead of using an ArcSDE application server connection.

FYI, Enterprise Geodatabase 101 ArcUser article
(look under the section "Type of Client Connections")

Esri is now actively promoting the "Direct Connection" model when connecting to an ArcSDE geodatabase.

Hope this helps,

Many thanks Derek for the very useful information you have provided.

Then still we need to install the ArcSDE (in addition to its installation on the server) in each machine of the users who are supposed to connect (direct connection) to the database on the server. Is this correct?

How about the ArcGIS Server? Do we still need to install it (in addition to its installation on the server) in ALL the machines of the users who are supposed to publish?

Best

Jamal

Re: ArcSDE no longer needed?

RichardWatson — Sun, 30 Dec 2012 12:26:25 GMT

Derek said "Both are server-side software" which implies that they only need to be installed on servers (i.e. not clients).

ArcMap includes "ArcSDE technology" which implies that no additional installation is required on the clients.

Re: ArcSDE no longer needed?

JamalNUMAN — Sun, 30 Dec 2012 15:12:23 GMT

Derek said "Both are server-side software" which implies that they only need to be installed on servers (i.e. not clients).

ArcMap includes "ArcSDE technology" which implies that no additional installation is required on the clients.

Thank you Richard.

�?� In case of ArcGIS Server: I couldn�??t figure out how the �??end user�?� who has the ArcGIS Desktop installed in his/her machine will be able to publish, for example, an mxd file? I think in this case the option �??share as service�?� will be greyed out.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]20324[/ATTACH]

�?� In case of ArcSDE: if we are still able to pop up the dialogue box of the �??database connection�?� then it is logic that we can then access the data on the server without having the ArcSDE installed on the end user machine

[ATTACH=CONFIG]20325[/ATTACH]

�?� How about the SQL server? Do we need to install it on the server only or also at the end user machines?

Best

Jamal

Re: ArcSDE no longer needed?

RichardWatson — Sun, 30 Dec 2012 16:29:53 GMT

Here are a tutorial on how to publish map services from ArcMap:

http://resources.arcgis.com/en/help/main/10.1/index.html#//0154000003vt000000

Here is a discussion about making a connection to ArcGIS Server from ArcMap:

http://resources.arcgis.com/en/help/main/10.1/index.html#/About_connecting_to_ArcGIS_Server_in_ArcGIS_for_Desktop/01540000030s000000/

Security is complex.

When you ask about SQL*Server I assume that you are using this as an enterprise geo-database. This would only be installed on a single server machine.

ArcSDE is not installed on client machines. If you chose to install this then it would be on a server machine which could be shared by clients. This configuration contrasts with using direct connect whereby the ArcSDE is embedded in ArcMap/ArcGIS Server. In other words, if you are using direct connect then you probably do not need to install ArcSDE. I say "probably" because I believe that there are some configuration tools which require this.

In your situation, I believe that the only software that you need to install on the client machines is ArcMap.

Re: ArcSDE no longer needed?

MarcoBoeringa — Sun, 30 Dec 2012 16:55:48 GMT

To Jamal:

I am working on a small PDF file with one figure / diagram that should clear up much of your, and other's, confusion around the "ESRI Geodatabase framework" (if I may call it so...) and all the components / applications involved.

I hope to post it tomorrow in the "Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1?" thread, as there is already a ton of good info by multiple contributors in that particular thread.

Stay tuned.

Marco

Re: ArcSDE no longer needed?

JamalNUMAN — Sun, 30 Dec 2012 19:48:53 GMT

To Jamal:

I am working on a small PDF file with one figure / diagram that should clear up much of your, and other's, confusion around the "ESRI Geodatabase framework" (if I may call it so...) and all the components / applications involved.

I hope to post it tomorrow in the "Why would I install ArcSDE with 10.1?" thread, as there is already a ton of good info by multiple contributors in that particular thread.

Stay tuned.

Marco

Thank you Richard and Macro for the valuable comments.

Yes please share it. Appreciated

Till now I could summarize the following:

Server machine:
�?� Windows 7 �??server�?�
�?� IIS
�?� Sql server 2008
�?� ArcGIS Server 10.1
�?� ArcSDE 10.1
�?� ArcGIS Web Adaptor 10.1

Client Side
�?� Windows 7
�?� ArcGIS Desktop 10.1

In this case

�?� The users can access (depending on their credentials) the database through the �??add database connection�?� (choosing the database platform, instance and database)
�?� Can access (depending on their credentials) the services or publish (mxd, loc, tbx, lyr, etc.) through the url: http://servername/arcgis/rest/services

hope I'm right!