topic Re: Collector: Anyone else find moving the map to add features awkward? in ArcGIS Collector Questions

Collector: Anyone else find moving the map to add features awkward?

EthanDuke — Sun, 24 Mar 2019 18:43:39 GMT

With every GIS app that I've used to add features (points or polygons), you click on the map location where you'd like to add a point or start drawing. With the new version of Collector, one must move the map to crosshairs. Does anyone else find this awkward?

There is a rather cumbersome workaround that allows you to first drop a pin and then select "Collect Here." At that point, your screen space is taken up by other location information before navigating to add data. This is particularly frustrating when you are collecting hundreds of features in a day.

Thankfully, the Collector Classic is still a useable option, albeit with the sacrifice of labeling.

Re: Collector: Anyone else find moving the map to add features awkward?

JakeJacobs — Tue, 02 Apr 2019 18:12:08 GMT

I have to say I prefer the new method, because it's easier to put the point where I want it more accurately. If it doesn't end up in the right place it's easy to adjust rather than just having to aim at a spot on the screen over and over again.

It is definitely designed for a workflow where you are standing very near the location that you want to place a feature, though.

Maybe ESRI should make this an option that the user could switch between based on their workflow - either the "move crosshairs" or the "drop pin" style of creating a point feature.

The insane preference for starting a feature at your current gps location is annoying, especially if you're digitizing polygons. That would be nice to have a toggle for, like "let me place the first point, don't try to do it for me".

Re: Collector: Anyone else find moving the map to add features awkward?

EthanDuke — Thu, 04 Apr 2019 20:12:12 GMT

I've been testing it a little more and admit it isn't the worst change, but still using "Classic."

On the other hand, the ability to rotate the map is a real plus.

Ditto on the default for starting a polygon feature at current location. In general, more options for customized UI would be great.

Re: Collector: Anyone else find moving the map to add features awkward?

NickBlack — Fri, 05 Apr 2019 13:33:37 GMT

Ethan / Erika,

Thanks for the feedback!

We realize the change to how feature geometry is set is a divergence from how Classic worked. It's something we were conscious of during the redesign, and extensively usability tested with both existing and new users.

Our main motivation was, as Erika states, to provide a way to accurately position points without your finger getting in the way or having to rely on the long press gesture to show a magnifier.

On starting a new feature at your GPS location for points, that is something we carried over from Classic and made consistent for lines and polygons. The assumption being you are at the location of the feature you are trying to Collect. It sounds as though we might not be hitting the mark here- and will keep trying to improve this aspect of the app.

Would it be possible for you to outline your workflow for digitizing polygons? Is this something you are doing in the field?

-Nick

Re: Collector: Anyone else find moving the map to add features awkward?

EthanDuke — Tue, 09 Apr 2019 18:06:29 GMT

Greetings Nick,

Ericka may have more specifics on digitizing polygons, as it is a more limited part of our workflow. Our primary work is adding points for all birds detected while observers walk line-transect during surveys. We survey over a thousand transects (typically 400m) each year. Observers selected a coded-value domain driven specie, verify other attributes, and then place the point. With "Classic" they were able to this relatively quickly and had the added feature of crosshairs within a magnified window. With the latest version, observers need to move the map and zoom in manually. After point submission the map remains in that state and users must manually adjust to the previous extent that is ideal for conducting surveys. Does this make sense? To put it another way, what would be most efficient way to add hundreds of points on a map-based PC application? Moving the map to a set point and clicking submit or allowing the user to place points anywhere in the view extent?

I hope this helps and I'm very appreciative of ESRI reaching out like this.

Thanks!

Ethan

Re: Collector: Anyone else find moving the map to add features awkward?

MKF62 — Mon, 06 May 2019 12:19:37 GMT

We're also doing bird surveys and are experiencing the same annoyances. These surveys go FAST - it is imperative that we can drop points quickly, fill out their info, and then move on to the next bird heard. These do not need to be precise point locations, we just need a guesstimate. Since Collector Classic doesn't support arcade expressions, we don't want to use that one either. We are not collecting points where we are standing. We need a way to collect points quickly in collector - I am sure there are many others who are doing things outside of bird surveys that would need this functionality.

Re: Collector: Anyone else find moving the map to add features awkward?

ZachAnderson2 — Fri, 14 Jun 2019 16:09:16 GMT

Hi Nick,

The new way of digitizing vertices (points, lines, or polys) in the new Collector is extremely cumbersome and annoying in geologic mapping workflows. I commonly drop points at locations that I am NOT standing at or near. I also digitize a lot of lines in the field, commonly of places I can see from where I am but not near my GPS point, ie. across a canyon, etc. Drawing lines by moving the map beneath the cross hairs is extremely frustrating and much much slower. In the "Classic" version I used a stylus to get past the "fat finger problem," which worked very well, was very efficient and fast, and enabled me to place points/vertices accurately. In the new version, drawing, and especially editing vertices along a line or polygon, is more difficult, slower, and requires more clicks and manipulation . New Collector: Collect line = Move screen, click Add Point, move screen, click Add Point, move screen, click Add Point, move screen, click Add Point, etc., etc. Collector Classic: Collect line= tap the screen with a stylus tip where you want a vertex, repeat, done.

It would be AMAZING if you could switch between the different modes of digitizing. Please bring back the "classic" way of collecting points/vertices.

Thanks.

Re: Collector: Anyone else find moving the map to add features awkward?

JeremyVore — Thu, 29 Aug 2019 13:22:25 GMT

Hello,

I am a GIS manager for a mining company and we wanted to use collector for geologic mapping but after seeing how polygons are put in that will not be an option. The original collector was not great with having to tap the screen for every vertex but at least you could put the point where you wanted. Ideally, we would like to be able to draw the lines and polygons with a stylus freehand like you can in many tablet apps. I almost feel this was designed only for point collection in mind and polygon mapping and line mapping was an afterthought. Geologic mapping uses more than just points. I agree with Zach it would be nice to be able to toggle between digitizing methods.

Currently, with our current workflow, we use ArcMap to map in the field using a field tablet. We have enterprise databases that are versioned. Our geologist run a check out database procedure, go out and map, and when they come back in from the field they clean up their mapping using topology. They run a script to apply z values then check the data back into the versioned SDE. This workflow is clunky and inefficient. My coworker and I are trying to migrate to a more app-driven mapping workflow with Portal but if Collector is going to make polygons and lines difficult to collect then we will have to look for an alternative. We were planning on deploying Ipad Pro tablets with the stylus.

If Collector is going to be more than just a point collector then the polygon and line input has to be multifunctional with options for freehand digitizing and point by point digitizing. At this point, we can not use the current collector. If collector classic is going to be supported for a few years we could get by using that. I look forward to any feedback and information on future updates.

Cheers,

Re: Collector: Anyone else find moving the map to add features awkward?

EtienneLaliberté — Thu, 09 Jan 2020 02:32:37 GMT

I totally agree - please consider adding freehand and autocomplete freehand polygons to Collector. Our workflow needs it. And we also digitise polygons without necessarily standing next to the point.

Re: Collector: Anyone else find moving the map to add features awkward?

MichaelDavis3 — Fri, 10 Jan 2020 00:52:13 GMT

When you need to support a very specific field data collection workflow, or if you are finding that the out-of-the-box ESRI tools aren't quite meeting your needs you might consider a custom data collection app using the Runtime SDK.

We've created several apps for situations where Collector just wasn't quite right, including when field crews needed to draw freehand polygons. It's a bit more effort to get things up and running, but depending on the need the time saved might be more than worth it.

Collector is trying to meet the needs of the widest range of people, there will always be outlier workflows or edge cases where it just isn't the right fit.

Re: Collector: Anyone else find moving the map to add features awkward?

NickBlack — Tue, 14 Jan 2020 16:14:39 GMT

Hi Zach,

Apologies for the delayed response and thanks for the feedback. We are doing some more design thinking here. Please can you clarify what devices/stylus type you are using?

-Nick

Re: Collector: Anyone else find moving the map to add features awkward?

NickBlack — Tue, 14 Jan 2020 16:22:27 GMT

Hi Jeremy,

Apologies for the late response and thanks for the feedback. We are doing some more design thinking here.Just to clarify - are you deploying the iPad Pro devices with the apple pencil?

Regards,

Nick

Re: Collector: Anyone else find moving the map to add features awkward?

ZachAnderson2 — Tue, 14 Jan 2020 16:26:42 GMT

Hi Nick,

I, and others in my office, are using the iPad Pro or iPad mini with the Apple Pencil.

Thanks,

Re: Collector: Anyone else find moving the map to add features awkward?

kmsmikrud — Thu, 23 Jan 2020 16:20:36 GMT

Hi Nick Black,

I wanted to add in that our organization would very much like the ability to add in offset lines and polygons from the receiver's location. The current workflow for the the line vertex starting at the current location and then having to move is way to cumbersome. We are trying to use the new Collector for aerial surveys where time is of the essence. We haven't used the old Collector but knowing the functionality is in the old version and not the new is discouraging. I also see that Survey123 has the geotrace option for sketching lines but don't like the idea of needing to switch apps just to draw a freehand line? So yes please do include freehand sketch tools that allow easier data collection of offset lines and polygons.

Why do you ask about the apple pencil? Is this needed for sketching?

Thanks,
Kathy

Re: Collector: Anyone else find moving the map to add features awkward?

NickBlack — Thu, 23 Jan 2020 17:29:41 GMT

Hi Kathy,

Thanks for providing more feedback. As far as offsets go, it may be worth looking at our Eos integration:

Laser Offset Guide for Collector: How to Configure Esri & Eos Tools Pro

I ask about the Apple pencil because it's possible to detect whether a pencil is connected to the device, so potentially we could provide a more tailored experience in that case (this is one option we are considering).

-Nick

Re: Collector: Anyone else find moving the map to add features awkward?

NickBlack — Thu, 23 Jan 2020 17:31:10 GMT

Hi Etienne,

Thanks for your feedback. Please can you provide more details about your workflow, and the use case for freehand?

Regards,

Nick

Re: Collector: Anyone else find moving the map to add features awkward?

kmsmikrud — Thu, 23 Jan 2020 17:42:39 GMT

Hi Nick Black‌,

Thanks for the quick response and info on the Eos integration. I have seen that integration but it wouldn't be useful for our workflow. We want to use Collector for ArcGIS to map features such as drawing in a portion of the coastline showing certain features from an airplane. So a person would be in the airplane and basically sketching in lines to match the features they are seeing if that makes sense.

Thanks for the info on the Apple pencil.

Kathy

Re: Collector: Anyone else find moving the map to add features awkward?

EtienneLaliberté — Thu, 23 Jan 2020 19:32:01 GMT

Hi Nick,

Thanks. We take UAV high-res RGB imagery of vegetation. Then, we load the orthomosaic as a basemap in an ArcGIS online map. This map is shared with field users, who are field biologists.

Field biologists then go in the field to specific areas (say, 10 x 10 m areas) and draw polygons around all individual plants/patches from the basemap, and identify to each species each plant/patch. The entire area needs to be fully covered.

These polygons, annotated to plant species, are then used as training data for deep learning algorithms (semantic segmentation). The goal is to generate plant species map for the entire UAV orthomosaic, using those regions fully annotated as training data.

Currently the only possible way we have found to do this is to use ArcMap on tablets, using a stylus. To make this operational, we need to draw with a stylus the contours of each plant. Drawing individual vertices is not good enough. It takes too long to use the current polygon drawing tool in Collector. Ideally we'd want to use the Apple Pencil on iPads on Collector, but that's not possible.

Also, we're not necessarily standing at the vertex of the polygon we want to draw. In fact, we're generally not standing directly where we want to draw it.

In ArcMap the freehand polygon tool is very useful, as well as the autocomplete freehand, because we need to completely cover small areas (say, 10 x 10 m areas on the ground) with polygons representing all of the different classes.

We don't want overlap between polygons, or no empty space in between, hence the need for the autocomplete option.

In ArcMap we create feature classes for every plant species / class to use. The only annoying thing with the autocomplete freehand is you can't use autocomplete freehand for different feature classes, even if these features are stored in the same shapefile. We can use the Trace tool to make sure polygons in a different feature class share exact boundaries with polygons from another feature class, but it's not as fast and a bit clumsy. We'd like the option to use autocomplete polygon (freehand or not) on polygons from different feature classes.

If we could all do that in Collector, it would be the perfect tool. With deep learning methods on the rise, and the need for such training data for semantic segmentation algorithms (e.g. convolutional neural networks), I can see how many plant ecologists / field biologists will be looking for tools to do exactly that. Collector is well-positioned to fill that niche, if it could only upgrade its polygon drawing capability.

Cheers,

Etienne

Le 23 janv. 2020 à 12:31, Nick Black <geonet@esri.com<mailto:geonet@esri.com>> a écrit :

GeoNet, The Esri Community | GIS and Geospatial Professional Community<https://community.esri.com/?et=watches.email.thread>

Re: Collector: Anyone else find moving the map to add features awkward?

reply from Nick Black<https://community.esri.com/people/NBlack-esristaff?et=watches.email.thread> in Collector for ArcGIS - View the full discussion<https://community.esri.com/message/903886-re-collector-anyone-else-find-moving-the-map-to-add-features-awkward?commentID=903886&et=watches.email.thread#comment-903886>

Re: Collector: Anyone else find moving the map to add features awkward?

EtienneLaliberté — Thu, 23 Jan 2020 19:38:37 GMT

To add to this:

Other companies are currently trying to fill that exact niche, for example Labelbox:

https://labelbox.com/docs/tools/tiled-imagery

Their image segmentation drawing tools are excellent

https://labelbox.com/product/image-segmentation

It's different than Collector in that it creates raster masks directly, but the drawing is much better from the user's perspective.

But they're not there yet. First, you can't use it offline. Tablets are not supported (though it works). Not really meant for field use (i.e. no GPS etc). Also, zoom level is limited to 22, which is not enough. Also a problem I think on Collector (?), but not ArcMap where you can zoom as much as you want.

With better polygon drawing tools (or why not, even raster masks like Labelbox!), Collector would be the best tool for this kind of image segmentation / annotation work where annotation must happen in the field.

Le 23 janv. 2020 à 14:31, Etienne Laliberté <etienne.laliberte@umontreal.ca<mailto:etienne.laliberte@umontreal.ca>> a écrit :

Hi Nick,

Thanks. We take UAV high-res RGB imagery of vegetation. Then, we load the orthomosaic as a basemap in an ArcGIS online map. This map is shared with field users, who are field biologists.

Also, we're not necessarily standing at the vertex of the polygon we want to draw. In fact, we're generally not standing directly where we want to draw it.

We don't want overlap between polygons, or no empty space in between, hence the need for the autocomplete option.

Cheers,

Etienne

Le 23 janv. 2020 à 12:31, Nick Black <geonet@esri.com<mailto:geonet@esri.com>> a écrit :

GeoNet, The Esri Community | GIS and Geospatial Professional Community<https://community.esri.com/?et=watches.email.thread>

Re: Collector: Anyone else find moving the map to add features awkward?

BiosisGIS — Tue, 01 Jun 2021 02:11:12 GMT

Hi Nick,

Similar to Etienne we are an ecological consultancy where a significant part of our workflows involve digitising detailed vegetation polygons based on a combination of field observation and high resolution aerial imagery. Our botanists usually digitise the polygons in the field using Collector, but all of them have reported this is slower and more cumbersome using the point on target method in Field Maps. Fieldwork usually needs to be completed within tight timeframes, any loss of productivity in the field has significant knock on effects.

As mentioned by others above, we also do rapid field collection of individual flora and fauna observations. It is much more important for our field staff to be able to make a quick estimation of the location by touching on a map than to get a precise location as often hundreds of observations are made in a day.

While the Collector Classic methods of capturing polygons is preferable to the Field Maps method, it is not ideal as features that should have coincident boundaries need to have overlaps and gaps tidied up and rough edges smoothed out post fieldwork. This is a time consuming process for our GIS staff.

Having the ability to freehand draw polygons like the markup in Field Maps using a stylus but with the auto-complete function available in the webapp builder edit widget to capture geometry into polygon layers would be ideal for us. It'd also be useful to have the ability to switch between the different methods of capture. We exclusively use Android tablets for data capture.

We are in the process of updating the majority of our devices to the Samsung Galaxy SM-P610 model.

It would be really helpful if you could provide me some information on esri's current thinking on this, if similar changes have been considered for future Field Maps updated and a rough estimate of timeframes if they are.

Kind regards,

James.