topic Re: Flex Roadmap is Extremely Disappointing in ArcGIS API for Flex Questions

Flex Roadmap is Extremely Disappointing

KirkMower — Mon, 24 Feb 2014 02:50:52 GMT

http://blogs.esri.com/esri/arcgis/2014/02/21/esris-roadmap-for-web-developers/

...and baffling considering that the best ArcGIS Server applications have been built with it. I am very angry about this, but I am only person. Everyone here should comment above.

Re: Flex Roadmap is Extremely Disappointing

RobertScheitlin__GISP — Mon, 24 Feb 2014 11:14:36 GMT

Kirk,

You could get others to complain, but I for one have just been waiting for esri to make this inevitable announcement. The industry market focus as been shifting towards HTML5 for sometime now. It is like Windows 8 you can complain all you want but it will do no good. ESRI is not going to change their mind about this and they shouldn't as in the near future browser plugins will be history, and Flash player is a plugin that flex uses. Progress means change and you have to get use to it. This all has a lot of impact on me as I have been the forums MVP for several years now based on my support of Flex API and the Viewer not to mentions the 100,000s of lines of code I have written for all 25 of the Flex widgets I have made available to people out there and other flex projects internally in my organization. I am not looking forward to changing my programming language again but it is what it is.

Re: Flex Roadmap is Extremely Disappointing

AaronNash1 — Mon, 24 Feb 2014 11:54:26 GMT

That is too bad, it seems a little premature to me. Adobe has been making big updates and bug fixes to Adobe Air and Flash Player. Not only that, Apache Flex is a top level Apache Software Product and is on a new release 4.12. In addition to the continued development and support of Flex, FlexJS is proof that a Flex Application can be cross-compiled into JS classes and run in a browser without the need for Flash/AIR runtimes. That's just my 2 cents

Re: Flex Roadmap is Extremely Disappointing

KomanDiabate — Mon, 24 Feb 2014 15:34:33 GMT

Here is my two cents.
It will be extremely hard for any flex programmer to go to javascript, just because Flex just works much much better. Going JS you have to learn javascript, Jquery, Dojo, javascript, css and the list go on...
I think ESRI is giving up to soon and it's all politics. This doesn't make no sense.
Aaron has already mentioned FlexJS if you have not hear of this google it, Apache Flex is doing a lot of works in a short period of time.
Keep Flexing Guys.

Re: Flex Roadmap is Extremely Disappointing

PaulHastings1 — Mon, 24 Feb 2014 17:12:58 GMT

perhaps we can complain that it should be open sourced instead of abandoned?

Re: Flex Roadmap is Extremely Disappointing

raffia — Mon, 24 Feb 2014 23:40:59 GMT

I say this and FB is about the only source that I know to create apps, this is inevitable. Apps created with FB run quite slow and memory intensive if you load any decent amount of dynamic data. Am not sure that JS will be better at this, am hopping it will be.

Re: Flex Roadmap is Extremely Disappointing

PaulHastings1 — Tue, 25 Feb 2014 01:11:56 GMT

I say this and FB is about the only source that I know to create apps, this is inevitable. Apps created with FB run quite slow and memory intensive if you load any decent amount of dynamic data. Am not sure that JS will be better at this, am hopping it will be.

FB? you mean flash builder? while it might have its flaws while developing it has little to do w/the resources an app uses when deployed. and if you don't like FB, there are a few other dev platforms, intelliJ for instance, that are quite nice.

Re: Flex Roadmap is Extremely Disappointing

raffia — Tue, 25 Feb 2014 06:59:54 GMT

FB? you mean flash builder? while it might have its flaws while developing it has little to do w/the resources an app uses when deployed. and if you don't like FB, there are a few other dev platforms, intelliJ for instance, that are quite nice.

Yeah I meant Flash Builder. I should have said "ActionScript" is the only coding language I know. But this upcoming transition is inevitable.

About Javasctipt, I have a basic question, as I understand, all the code is executed on the client side, so that enables anyone to grab all the code?

Re: Flex Roadmap is Extremely Disappointing

GISDev1 — Tue, 25 Feb 2014 16:20:26 GMT

About Javasctipt, I have a basic question, as I understand, all the code is executed on the client side, so that enables anyone to grab all the code?

Yes, basically. There are a few exceptions, but yes basically.
The main downside to using Javascript is having to test with all the different browser configurations.

Re: Flex Roadmap is Extremely Disappointing

DaveKirkley — Tue, 25 Feb 2014 18:27:02 GMT

My two "Canadian" cents..lol :confused:

Reading Robert's post here has got me a little upset for sure, but what he says is true; change is inevitable, especially in the IT world. That's just stating the all too obvious.

I started GIS in 2001, and was introduced to Javascript, ArcXML and ArcIMS. Then, at my first working stint, I was working with Autodesk Map Guide; a platform that went Open source with limited success. 2005 brought me back to ArcIMS and ESRI's .NET/ArcGIServer leap around 2007 or so. The switch to Flex was a great relief from those days. I loved the simplicity of the code and the entire look and feel of the viewers.
I'm very grateful for the many posts on this forum and great widgets shared by Mr. Sheitlin. Thanks again Robert! I must say though, you seem to be taking this gracefully, considering the huge effort you put into Flex.

The HTML 5 shift has been looming over the web world for a while now. The Marine motto " ...Accept, Adapt, Overcome" comes to mind. That said, as with all changes, I tend to wait out the initial whirlwind with these things, let the dust settle, and make an informed decision.

Dave Kirkley

Re: Flex Roadmap is Extremely Disappointing

RobertScheitlin__GISP — Tue, 25 Feb 2014 19:00:33 GMT

Dave,

That said, as with all changes, I tend to wait out the initial whirlwind with these things, let the dust settle, and make an informed decision.

That's the thing... The dust is settling. Microsoft Internet Explorer has been the major hold back and now they are starting to grasp HTML5.

As I mentioned I am not real excited about this but the Army taught me to be flexible. I have been dabbling in the JavaScript API for a while now as I know this day would come.

Re: Flex Roadmap is Extremely Disappointing

raffia — Tue, 25 Feb 2014 20:54:05 GMT

Dave,

That's the thing... The dust is settling. Microsoft Internet Explorer has been the major hold back and now they are starting to grasp HTML5.

As I mentioned I am not real excited about this but the Army taught me to be flexible. I have been dabbling in the JavaScript API for a while now as I know this day would come.

Robert, what is your impression so far? For a typical app for JS and FB, is JS faster given all other parameters stay constant?

Thanks

Re: Flex Roadmap is Extremely Disappointing

BjornSvensson — Tue, 25 Feb 2014 21:30:53 GMT

About Javasctipt, I have a basic question, as I understand, all the code is executed on the client side

Yes, but this is no different than a flash application.

Re: Flex Roadmap is Extremely Disappointing

RobertScheitlin__GISP — Tue, 25 Feb 2014 21:31:50 GMT

Raffi,

Developing apps is painfully slow for me as I am just learning. but the one thing I can say is that if you are working with a lot of graphics the JS API is much quicker and better at handling 1000s of graphics. One of the real hard things for me so far has been my lack of enough knowledge to put together a dojo dialog widget that has an item renderer (or the JS equivalent). But I plan on spending some time with the JS API developers as the Dev Summit and get that part under my belt hopefully. I plan on continuing my Flex Development for a long time yet. What I have been trying do do in my spare time is taking smaller Flex API apps and attempting to duplicate all the functionality in a JS app.

Re: Flex Roadmap is Extremely Disappointing

raffia — Tue, 25 Feb 2014 23:26:48 GMT

Yes, but this is no different than a flash application.

Well am sure there is a way around everything these days, I was referring to how easy it is to trace JS code just by viewing the source of the html doc. We protected the swf from decoding using a commercial software and I couldn't decode the final swf using a variety of ways, am sure there is a way, it just seems to be that much difficult from JS code.

Re: Flex Roadmap is Extremely Disappointing

raffia — Tue, 25 Feb 2014 23:34:23 GMT

Raffi,

Developing app is painfully slow for me as I am just leaning. but the one thing I can say is that if you are working with a lot of graphics the JS API is much quicker and better at handling 1000s of graphics. One of the real hard things for me so far has been my lack of enough knowledge to put together a dojo dialog widget that has an item renderer (or the JS equivalent). But I plan on spending some time with the JS API developers as the Dev Summit and get that part under my belt hopefully. I plan on continuing my Flex Development for a long time yet. What I have been trying do do in my spare time is taking smaller Flex API apps and attempting to duplicate all the functionality in a JS app.

Thanks Robert;

The handling of loads of graphics was very important as FB really slowed with over 200 points or more.

I totally understand ESRI's decision here, it was coming and I think the first clue was iOS's lack of support for flash. Maybe just the timing could have been better by either making this announcement with the release of the 3.0 API or make the announcement now as they did but pull the plug with the last release of a 4.x API.

Re: Flex Roadmap is Extremely Disappointing

PaulHastings1 — Wed, 26 Feb 2014 23:56:48 GMT

i'm not really sure JS/HTML5 has "won" anything yet. and pretty sure ms & IE hasn't been holding it back especially in the mobile space. the largest mobile apps are all pretty much native (facebook--recall that facebook made a big stink when it dumped HTML5 for native, twitter & hey even gmail). pretty sure few cared what ms & IE were doing. also, i think HTML5 is not even a small blip in the iOS citadel (though i'm less familiar w/apple than android, so somebody correct if i'm wrong).

i guess we'll have to wait & see what JS API version 4 looks like.

i really do wish ESRI would open source the flex bits especially in light of apache flex & flexJS. let the community keep pace w/server developments.

Re: Flex Roadmap is Extremely Disappointing

RobertScheitlin__GISP — Thu, 27 Feb 2014 01:13:51 GMT

Funny, I don't remember anyone saying that HTML5 has won. When I as mentioning IE as holding back HTML5, it was more to imply as far as a so called modern browser their failure to adopt of the standards was not helping. Nothing is going to beat native but that is one of the main points of HTML5 is for developers not to have to develop several version of an app for each device platform. flexJS is a great move in a good direction but it is not even in Alpha yet. I am enjoying the work the Apache Flex team is doing and Flex as a language is going to be around for many more years.

Re: Flex Roadmap is Extremely Disappointing

PaulHastings1 — Thu, 27 Feb 2014 07:04:28 GMT

you "implied" as much 😉

yes flexJS is pre-alpha but by the same token HTML5's not a standard. and heaven help us if the browser vendors go nuts again and "standards" based development starts emphasizing the "plural" again.

and sorry, no, HTML5 doesn't yet ensure 100% device-neutral apps, its all up to what that particular device's browser/version supports. not every bit of HTML5 is universally supported--though truthfully i'm not exactly sure what parts of the HTML5 not-yet-a-spec spec would be important to our little niche. maybe this is a place to start looking?

http://html5test.com/index.html

and since you seem to be talking timeliness, AIR comes close to that goal right now, at least its fairly painless to aim at different devices.

Re: Flex Roadmap is Extremely Disappointing

KomanDiabate — Thu, 27 Feb 2014 16:43:09 GMT

HTML5 has not won yet, maybe one day but we don't know that yet, cause no one can predict the future, rite.

Check the link below and see what Mark Zuckerber from facebook quoted about HTML5.
"Mark Zuckerberg: Our Biggest Mistake Was Betting Too Much On HTML5"

http://techcrunch.com/2012/09/11/mark-zuckerberg-our-biggest-mistake-with-mobile-was-betting-too-much-on-html5/